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Post by Cossack on Aug 23, 2010 17:55:31 GMT -5
Well, meet the crossbow shooter that practices every day, weather permitting. I like to know exactly where every one of my three bows hit out to 50 yards, though my personal maximum shoot-to range on game is under 40. I for one took up crossbows-after no longer being able to pull a vert- because I enjoy making things work, making my own arrows and strings, bow maintenance gear-including a press- as well as targets. But most of all because I enjoy the solitude of the fall woods, wearing green/brown camo, without the company of gun totting fools, whose very manhood seems tied to KILLING a deer. The folks that are too lazy to pull a bow are in for a big surprise if they think crossbows are the answer. Hunting with one is still about getting close to an (unaware) target, and knowing trajectory is every bit as important as with a vert. We may disagree on this subject but that's OK, lots of room for opinions here. I'd like to trade hunts with you. Hog hunting sounds like a hoot. Too cold for em here; even bears hibernate. But we have some kind sized deer ...that even a 'verter' like you might be able to hit.  Take care. Hunt hard, kill if you must, but it's the hunting that separates the real dedicated folks from the wanabes. |
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red
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Post by red on Aug 23, 2010 18:30:55 GMT -5
"The excuse that allowing crossbows into archery season to introduce kids to the sport just won't fly. So a kid has to wait a couple of more years before he or she is able to bow hunt. Does this mean a parent can't take them hunting with a gun? Several years ago the NWTF commissioned a study to find out what were the reasons for the decline in hunter participation. The number one reason was lack of access to hunting land. The number two reason was lack of people willing to take a youngster hunting with reason number one being the main cause of that. Lack of crossbows in archery season did not make the list."Good points, CCW...understand that I was not trying to lobby to allow crossbows into archery season for my sons. I am happy that we have a separate season. What I was saying is that I am glad he has an opportunity to hunt before the "running of the dogs". As of yet, no one has responded that can defend this tradition to me. I have an open mind, but I have a hard time believing that someone will convince me that it is okay to engage in an activity that will surely ruin everyone else's hunt. That is the epitome of selfishness to me. Since I started this thread, I know the original topic was not dog hunting, although it was an important motivational factor regarding my purchase of a crossbow. As I have mentioned before, I hope we can keep this dialogue going in a respectful manner and not make an "AT" thread out of it.
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red
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Post by red on Aug 23, 2010 18:49:44 GMT -5
I like a lot of what your saying, but, I am not a big fan of referring to any type of legal hunting as an " idiotic tradition ". There are enough ANTIs out there to take care of slandering our collective hunting activities. You must know that there are many people who think archery hunting is an " idiotic tradition", although you consider it to be "our time honored tradition". I have hunted with rifles, shotguns, compounds, crossbows, dogs, bait,etc.. Although some I may never do some of them again, I WILL NOT be bad mouthing the rest of the hunting fraternities choices. United We Stand, Divided We Fall!!!  |
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Post by vixenmaster on Aug 23, 2010 20:18:17 GMT -5
We all have our opinion's about diff Bows vertical or horizontal. I truely wish ppl would stop making any refference of firearms to crossbows. The latter has been around 2000 yrs prior to the former. Last i can say on this subject is every person will get to the point their body will no longer be able to control the verticals but that love of up close & personal Bowhunting desire is still there! Hello crossbow yer new found friend, ;D
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Post by ccwilder3 on Aug 23, 2010 21:26:20 GMT -5
I like a lot of what your saying, but, I am not a big fan of referring to any type of legal hunting as an " idiotic tradition ". There are enough ANTIs out there to take care of slandering our collective hunting activities. You must know that there are many people who think archery hunting is an " idiotic tradition", although you consider it to be "our time honored tradition". I have hunted with rifles, shotguns, compounds, crossbows, dogs, bait,etc.. Although some I may never do some of them again, I WILL NOT be bad mouthing the rest of the hunting fraternities choices. United We Stand, Divided We Fall!!! Red, I had a response typed out and lost it when I tried to upload it. This satellite internet is a pain when it's stormy. I will respond tomorrow. |
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SPIKER
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Post by SPIKER on Aug 24, 2010 7:56:51 GMT -5
I will say that the requirements for obtaining a special disability permit are too stringent. You literally have to be blowing through a tube to get one.  My suggestion would be that the person applying for the permit show proof of a valid archery license, along with proof of not being able to draw a legal weight bow. Not just..."it's uncomfortable." I would have no problem understanding that person's situation.  I will say this again though...If any state decided to allow any weapon, in any season, you would see this: 1. The Trad guys would remain Trad guys. 2. 40% of the "bowhunters" would defect to shooting with a scoped rifle. 3. The muzzleloader, and shotgun would cease to be used in favor of scoped rifles, except for maybe 10% that would be the hardcore muzzleloader guys...slug gunners would cease to exist. 4. The crossbow would fare worse than the muzzleloader, practically ceasing as a hunting weapon all together, and joining the slug gun in a spiraling death. These are just my opinions, and based on my experiences with these weapons, and with the people who shoot these weapons. I would also bet that the first rule change if the crossbow became legal in the bowseason here in NY, would be "Hunter Orange." I know this one guy who if they opened a "Dynamite" season, would be the first to run out a buy a suicide bombers jacket..  |
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Post by Cossack on Aug 24, 2010 9:27:17 GMT -5
This thread started with the discussion of crossbows as archery. i.e. one season for all bows( implement s that shoot arrows) How it devolved into a 'dynamite' season is beyond me.
Don't know about where you live, but here certain more populated zones, as well as agricultural area or with less forestation, are designated for shotgun, muzzlelaoder and handguns only.
Rifles cannot be used. Some suburban zones are designated archery only. So, a free for all isn't happening. But, never be said that bogus arguments can't be developed to maintain the status quo for those who would benefit by them..
Same goes for flo camo during archery season if crossbows are included. Presumably that's intended to mean that crossbows shoot further than vertical bows and are therefore dangerous to unseen hunters (?) If so, that is not true. Crossbows don't shoot as far-or as flat-as arrows of the same weight shot from a compound bow at the same speed. It has to do with the ballistic coefficientcy of the two arrows: The longer thinner arrow with less FOC will 'glide' further before starting to fall.
Not meaning to challenge you, but exactly what are your experiences with "these" weapons and the "people that shoot them" that make you so seemingly vehemently opposed to crossbow use during archery season?
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Post by Cossack on Aug 24, 2010 10:53:10 GMT -5
"The excuse that allowing crossbows into archery season to introduce kids to the sport just won't fly. So a kid has to wait a couple of more years before he or she is able to bow hunt. Does this mean a parent can't take them hunting with a gun? Several years ago the NWTF commissioned a study to find out what were the reasons for the decline in hunter participation. The number one reason was lack of access to hunting land. The number two reason was lack of people willing to take a youngster hunting with reason number one being the main cause of that. Lack of crossbows in archery season did not make the list."That may be, but a just completed Minnesota study indicates that kids who are not engaged in hunting by 10, tend not to start. (Presumably other pursuits for success- like video games and fishing-tend to capture their interests). Ostensibly it was done to justify lowering the age for use of guns to 10. But allowing 10 year olds to hunt with rifles isn't publicly acceptable here. So they have to wait until 12 and have passed their FS training. Another finding is that many young kids are turned off by the recoil of deer legal rifles: Minnesota did something about that last year by allowing the use of '22 caliber centerfire cartridges.' (Previously, the lightest allowed deer cartridge was a .243). So, if kids aren't getting into hunting because they have to wait until 12, and are turned off by recoil when they do, but are generally unable to pull a deer legal bow at either age, crossbows offer a solution: Less public opposition to use at 10, more chance of successful use, no recoil to speak of. Now all that has to be done is to convince some bow hunters that these draconian weapons, that were used to breech knight's armor during the Middle Ages, are safe for our kids.  |
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Post by SPIKER on Aug 24, 2010 12:16:48 GMT -5
This thread started with the discussion of crossbows as archery. i.e. one season for all bows( implement s that shoot arrows) How it devolved into a 'dynamite' season is beyond me. Devolved..there you go again with the condescending tone. Lighten up, it was a joke.  So, a free for all isn't happening. But, never be said that bogus arguments can't be developed to maintain the status quo for those who would benefit by them.. And again. Not meaning to challenge you, but exactly what are your experiences with "these" weapons and the "people that shoot them" that make you so seemingly vehemently opposed to crossbow use during archery season? Yes, you are challenging me, and the others who are opposed to the crossbow during bow season. You are the only one spewing venom at those that do not agree with you, or have a different opinion. Here's your earlier post writhing with resentment: Unless, of course, the real reason is because you don't want them in 'your' season, after 'your' deer. Here's an idea: Let's create a separate crossbow season by shortening the vertical bow season(s). That way you could avoid being with "them." It's posts like this that "Devolve" this thread: It has become increasingly apparent that most of those who are against crossbow use are so because they will become part of "their" season. 'Let em hunt with the rifle guys but keep them out of my woods when I'm hunting with a (real) bow. That's both selfish and shortsighted. It never ceases to amaze me how selfish and narrow minded some folks can be. Can you make one post without attacking, and name calling? |
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Post by Cossack on Aug 24, 2010 13:30:12 GMT -5
That was then, I changed my tone in the last post but apparently not enough to appease you. I apologize if what I said offended you.
Right or not, my immediate reaction is to respond defensively when my position is attacked-just as you seem to-and esp so if misinformation is applied to do so.
Now, kindly answer my last question in the preceding post: What negative experiences with crossbows and their users caused your apparent dislike for them?
I'm truly trying to understand where you're coming from.
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