Crossbow controversy...

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I had a good and respected friend PM regarding his concern with crossbow hunting, esecially in places where crossbows are legal in the woods during archery season. I am in agreement with him. I sent the following PM, but thought it was worth copying here:

You and I are in full agreement...I have no plans of using mine during bow season. In Florida it is not even legal. We have a 6 day only crossbow season. My primary motivation was to get my 12-year-old in the woods before gun season. They have this idiotic tradition in the South called dog hunting . Once rifle season starts, so do the running, barking dogs who have no idea where property lines are... thus your chances for success are very low. I've had several experiences with dogs running right under my stand after I've spent hours waiting patiently for prime time. So, with a crossbow I can get Caleb into the woods before stupidity begins. I can only say if you had a kid his age you'd be thinking along the same lines. Additionally, we have hog season all year round...that presents another opportunity for him.

My son is a skinny pre-teen. Should he be denied the opportunity to hunt simply because he is not strong enough to pull adequate weight with a bow for an ethical kill? Kids are our hunting future. As for me, I am wonderfully excited about us sharing a stand together and to be able to pass along my passion for the outdoors and our time-honored tradition of hunting . Others could have different opinions, which is fine. Some folks also eat vegetables only.

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As an additional thought, folks should visit this site:

tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

To anyone who thinks they are taking the moral high road on this subject. Everyone on that site believes that "bows" with wheels on them are not actually bows and hunting with a compound is not real hunting at all. I love to visit Tradgang and also shoot a longbow. To me, it's all just hunting.

[Cossack]

I see no reason to apologize for hunting with a crossbow. They are no more effective than a good compound vert in practiced hands. Yes, there is a stock but you still have to hold up a 8-10 lb implement, for one relativley loud shot, whose trajectory is steeper than an arrow shot from a vert at comparable speeds. (Yes, folks, PSE makes a vert that's spect at over 360 fps). And as for drawing a vert, Concept 99 makes a vert with 99% letoff.
The hunting is the same: up close and personal. It's great that you're giving your son chance to harvest a deer with a bow; don't deminish it (in your mind) by feeling you have to justify the hunting implement used.

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Aug 17, 2010 23:14:42 GMT -5 Cossack said:

I see no reason to apologize for hunting with a crossbow. They are no more effective than a good compound vert in practiced hands. Yes, there is a stock but you still have to hold up a 8-10 lb implement, for one relativley loud shot, whose trajectory is steeper than an arrow shot from a vert at comparable speeds. (Yes, folks, PSE makes a vert that's spect at over 360 fps). And as for drawing a vert, Concept 99 makes a vert with 99% letoff.
The hunting is the same: up close and personal. It's great that you're giving your son chance to harvest a deer with a bow; don't deminish it (in your mind) by feeling you have to justify the hunting implement used.

Good points....I am new to crossbows, but it seems those that have never used them are under some pretty serious misconceptions. They are not the efficient, long-range, automatic killing machines they are made out to be.

1. Without a solid rest (which won't be available in my climbing treestand), I am much more accurate with my compound than with the crossbow. Shooting a crossbow off-hand is difficult.

2. They are much louder, as you noted.

3. You must still be up close and personal with the game (as you mentioned) you pursue...I can't see taking a shot beyond 40 yards with a crossbow, yet with my compound I am proficient and confident out to 50.

4. Folks worry about "slob hunters" taking over the woods. Slob hunters aren't defined by their choice of weapons, rather by their "slobiness" for lack of a better term. I've had treestands and cameras stolen by both bow and gun hunters. I've had both gun and bow hunters ignore property lines and trespass. I've seen both gun and bow hunters take more game than the law allows or take game out of season. I've seen both bow and gun hunters litter the woods and disrespect game, etc, etc. Those are the folks that will ruin hunting for us all, not by the ones choosing to hunt with a crossbow.
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[SPIKER]

To play devil's advocate, let me interject.

The problem is that uneducated hunters percieve the crossbow to be the killing machine it is not, because they have tried a bow, and failed, due to their work, and skill ethics.

I have repeatedly heard from said hunters that they want to use a crossbow during the bow season, not the rifle, or muzzleloader season, because the bow season is the only one that they would have an advantage, due to their lack of bow skill.

My point, and opinion will always be this: Crossbows are fine for the rifle, and muzzleloader season. They are fine for the disabled, who can't pull, and hold a compound. And maybe youth hunts, but I've seen some of the parents, and they scare me too.

These are just my opinions, based on what I have seen growing up here in NY, and are not meant to offend anyone.

Just trying to present a different point of view, and one shared by more than a few people that I know here in NY.

[vixenmaster]

There will always be ppl who think that way until they try the crossbow. It takes a die hard person to hunt with & shoot them. Those that try it find out its heavy awkard bulky & you have to move it same as any other Bow to aim with. So any game may or maynot see this movement it depends on how good the hunter is.

[Cossack]

So it that's the case, the uneducated hunter will soon find out that crossbows AREN'T a killing machine and give up, regardless what season he tries them in. But lumping an implement that shoots arrows-not more effectively than a compound vertical bow-with guns that project bullets makes no sense at all. Unless, of course, the real reason is because you don't want them in 'your' season, after 'your' deer. Here's an idea: Let's create a separate crossbow season by shortening the vertical bow season(s). That way you could avoid being with "them." Which do you prefer: ALL bows, one season or separate (shorter) bow seasons for each type of bow?

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I really can see both sides of the issue....in Florida, there is not much controversy. As I said, crossbow opens after bow season and is only for 6 days. As far as"uneducated" hunters go, I think I'd rather take my chances with uneducated crossbow hunters over uneducated gun hunters any day. I've seen plenty of gun hunters who "sling lead"...much more dangerous situation than shooting a crossbow. I intentionally bought my sons a single shot rifle..."one shot to make it count, identify your target and what is beyond it, no slingling lead, no reloading". Parents who don't take time to teach their youngsters weapon safety, outdoorsmanship, respect for the woods, their game and fellow hunters is a real problem and but really has nothing to do with the weapon involved.

[SPIKER]

Aug 19, 2010 15:01:09 GMT -5 Cossack said:

So it that's the case, the uneducated hunter will soon find out that crossbows AREN'T a killing machine and give up, regardless what season he tries them in. But lumping an implement that shoots arrows-not more effectively than a compound vertical bow-with guns that project bullets makes no sense at all. Unless, of course, the real reason is because you don't want them in 'your' season, after 'your' deer. Here's an idea: Let's create a separate crossbow season by shortening the vertical bow season(s). That way you could avoid being with "them." Which do you prefer: ALL bows, one season or separate (shorter) bow seasons for each type of bow?

Ok, here we go...a crossbow is not a bow.

It is somewhat of a hybrid, incorporating some of the characteristics of a bow, ie..string, limbs, bolt/arrow.

But it also encompasses some of the characteristics of a rifle, ie..trigger, stock, scope.

Having pointed this out, my contention is that bow season, is bow season...and has absolutely nothing to do with "my deer".

My mindset does not even compute such a statement, as I am happier to see someone get a deer, than even getting one myself. But, I know the type that you are talking about , so I won't hold it against you.


My concern is safety. We don't wear red/hunter orange during bow season, I wear leafy wear. Bow hunters are not the ones that want the crossbow to be legal here (during the bow season)...it's the rifle hunters...why?

Because they can't shoot bows. They can't tune bows. They can't not get busted in their stands drawing a bow.

Trust me, I know them, and know them well, and I am not comparing all crossbow shooters to these characteristics. In NY, there aren't any crossbow hunters, just rifle hunters that want them to get in on the bow season.

So, let crossbows be legal during rifle season.

That's not an "anti" comment, anymore than being against muzzleloaders in the bow season, as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry, but that's my feelings on the subject.

[vixenmaster]

Crossbows have been around about 3 thousand yrs. So lets not compare it to a firearm thats been around only 500 yrs please. Make no mistake a rifle hunter that can't Bowhunt will not want anything to do with a CB. Do you own one or shoot one ? Were talking short range if person is very good hunter/shooter 40 yds. They are very accurate but only when supported. Freehand like 3-D shoots it won't stand against compounds. Now do you use a compound or LONG or recurve Bow ?