smj
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Post by smj on Aug 20, 2010 16:33:03 GMT -5
Threads about this subject usually go way off the deep end long before this...
Personally, I look at the x-bow as being the link between the bow and the rifle. If you compare the amount of time it takes to hit something with a longbow against the time it takes to hit something with an x-bow, at say 30 yards - my guess is that it is going to take less time to learn to use the x-bow. If I want my army to be trained up quickly, I'll probably order a large number of x-bows so that at least a portion of them get up to speed quickly. If I had rifles available - well, its no guess as to what the choice would be.
This is not about outfitting an army. It is about what type of weapon you want to drag in to the field to try to kill things.
I don't know if the x-bow should be in the bow category or the rifle category - maybe both! I don't know if my compound should be in the same category as my longbow. But somewhere some group of individuals decided it is, and the x-bow is not. I am OK with that. Had they ruled the other way, I would be OK with that one as well.
I have had negative experiences with x-bows - so my feeling is that it would do more harm than good to the archery season than good to have them allowed... But again, this not based on the good of it all, rather the my own personal view of the not so good.
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Post by vixenmaster on Aug 20, 2010 17:32:53 GMT -5
smj, sorry you had bad experiences with them. Hope one didn't blow up on you. I have heard of it happening to ppl. I have kept an open mind on weapons to hunt with over my life time. I have used most of the common one's. I have drifted away from rifles over the yrs. & regular Bows also. I use CB most of the time & ML's every now & again.
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red
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Post by red on Aug 20, 2010 22:03:00 GMT -5
I am glad a respectul dialogue on the subject is possible. This forum is somewhat unique in that regard. My original intent was just to post my thoughts on the subject....really more as a sounding board to see if maybe I was way off base. Obviously the issue is bigger outside of this state, as no one seems too concerned about having such a short season.
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SPIKER
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Post by SPIKER on Aug 21, 2010 5:47:13 GMT -5
Guys, don't get me wrong. I have no problem with people hunting with a x bow. My belief though, is that it should either have it's own season, or be allowed to be used in the rifle, and muzzleloader seasons. Vixenmaster, the problem here in NY as I see it, is this. Rifle hunters, who have failed at bowhunting, and I know plenty of them, will buy x bows regardless of whether or not they know anything about them (if they become legal), and while they find out that it's not the cure all to their "bowseason" problems, they might take out a few of us along the way, and create the same problems we have during the rifle season. I'm sure there are guys researching the newest x bows, with the slimmest profile to use in their, what I call, "urban assault vehicles"....mini - vans with double sliding doors. I can't believe these guys when I see them, but they are there. Roadhunters are our number one problem. I even saw them in Westchester.  I agree with smj about the longbow, and have always thought that there should be a separate week for the longbow/recurve guys. The only other alternative as I see it would to have all the seasons mixed into one, with any legal weapon able to be used at any time. The funny thing about that is no one would even think about using a X bow when they could use a rifle, and the trad guys would still be the trad guys...but I bet...you would even see 40% of the so called "bowhunters" break ranks, and head out with scoped rifles.  If they do become legal, I would buy one to use during the rifle season myself, just to experience it, but I would never put my bows down for one...hell, my 300 Win Mag hasn't been shot at a deer in 7 years...lol |
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smj
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Post by smj on Aug 21, 2010 8:27:36 GMT -5
Hey - this is a great thread! Red - I think you are spot on with your thoughts on getting young ones in to the sport. If it sticks on them, it will be up to them to determine what they want to hunt with once they understand the sport. I like the sound of a 6 day xbow season - I have to ask though, what season got pinched to make room for it? Archery or rifle? I hope neither - but out here in Colorado I think one of those two seasons would have to make room to do it that way. Note though, out here I believe that during rifle season you can use any legal means of taking an animal: bow, rifle, pistol, shotgun, muzzleloading rifles and smoothbore muskets, or xbow. Hunt with what you like during that time (I have the regs open in front of me, I opened them up once starting down this line, so I don't think I missed anything!) In the regs, under rifle season, it says "Open to all legal methods of take." Page 26 of the 2010 elk season listing in the Big Game brochure.
As to the bad with xbows - I'd rather not go down that road. It brings nothing good to the table, and is based only on my own bias more than anything. I'll just say that there have been a few issues with the users of xbows over time, and let it go.
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red
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Post by red on Aug 21, 2010 8:43:02 GMT -5
"I like the sound of a 6 day xbow season - I have to ask though, what season got pinched to make room for it? Archery or rifle? I hope neither " Great question, SMJ...I don't have the seasons from last year. Most likely, it was bow season that got the cut. Although, I say let's be reasonable. In order to create a separate crossbow season and avoid the controversy that Spiker detailed a compromise has to be made somewhere. Seems like maybe Florida devised a solution that would be the one that everyone could live with.  |
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Post by vixenmaster on Aug 21, 2010 8:48:05 GMT -5
My take on any use of any weapon fer hunting takes a person to have an open mind. I seldom use a rifle, its not that i don't like shooting them but even here ppl are buying land out in the country & build their homes. Its getting harder to be safe using a rifle. I won't take a chance of a shot from rifle hitting ppl or animals, buildings. I have ppl on every side of the 70 acres i live on in my cabin. ML's or shotgun would be safe enuff but i love my CB's & hunt all seasons with them. As i said the firearms hunters using a CB would be a short lived thing, I would love to see the stupid person shoot a CB out of a truck/car window,lol. Talk about chaos when the limbs hit inside & broken parts & maybe body parts included. ;D I do believe the CB is defined as a Bow, some ppl have their view or opinion & thats fine, its a free country so far.
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Post by tommygun on Aug 22, 2010 7:49:06 GMT -5
I like a lot of what your saying, but, I am not a big fan of referring to any type of legal hunting as an " idiotic tradition ". There are enough ANTIs out there to take care of slandering our collective hunting activities. You must know that there are many people who think archery hunting is an " idiotic tradition", although you consider it to be "our time honored tradition". I have hunted with rifles, shotguns, compounds, crossbows, dogs, bait,etc.. Although some I may never do some of them again, I WILL NOT be bad mouthing the rest of the hunting fraternities choices. United We Stand, Divided We Fall!!!
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Post by tommygun on Aug 22, 2010 8:06:53 GMT -5
So it that's the case, the uneducated hunter will soon find out that crossbows AREN'T a killing machine and give up, regardless what season he tries them in. But lumping an implement that shoots arrows-not more effectively than a compound vertical bow-with guns that project bullets makes no sense at all. Unless, of course, the real reason is because you don't want them in 'your' season, after 'your' deer. Here's an idea: Let's create a separate crossbow season by shortening the vertical bow season(s). That way you could avoid being with "them." Which do you prefer: ALL bows, one season or separate (shorter) bow seasons for each type of bow? Ok, here we go...a crossbow is not a bow. It is somewhat of a hybrid, incorporating some of the characteristics of a bow, ie..string, limbs, bolt/arrow. But it also encompasses some of the characteristics of a rifle, ie..trigger, stock, scope. Having pointed this out, my contention is that bow season, is bow season...and has absolutely nothing to do with "my deer". My mindset does not even compute such a statement, as I am happier to see someone get a deer, than even getting one myself. But, I know the type that you are talking about , so I won't hold it against you.  My concern is safety. We don't wear red/hunter orange during bow season, I wear leafy wear. Bow hunters are not the ones that want the crossbow to be legal here (during the bow season)...it's the rifle hunters...why? Because they can't shoot bows. They can't tune bows. They can't not get busted in their stands drawing a bow. Trust me, I know them, and know them well, and I am not comparing all crossbow shooters to these characteristics. In NY, there aren't any crossbow hunters, just rifle hunters that want them to get in on the bow season. So, let crossbows be legal during rifle season. That's not an "anti" comment, anymore than being against muzzleloaders in the bow season, as far as I'm concerned. Sorry, but that's my feelings on the subject. I have to disagree. A cxbow is not like a rifle, a rifle is like a cxbow, that is a big difference. Cxbows had stocks, triggers, sights, etc, hundreds of years before rifles were thought of, future rifles adapted those traits, much like the vast improvements that have been made to vert bows over the centuries. I recently took my brother to Bass Pro, and although he was a competitive archer in the mid 80's, could hardly recognize the new verts, whisker biscuits, sights, realeases, weight, size, etc.. That does not mean ppl who shoot these new bows are not archers, or should not be allowed to hunt when my brother goes out with his, "top of the line" prehistoric, 1981 PSE! |
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red
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Post by red on Aug 22, 2010 8:19:47 GMT -5
I like a lot of what your saying, but, I am not a big fan of referring to any type of legal hunting as an " idiotic tradition ". There are enough ANTIs out there to take care of slandering our collective hunting activities. You must know that there are many people who think archery hunting is an " idiotic tradition", although you consider it to be "our time honored tradition". I have hunted with rifles, shotguns, compounds, crossbows, dogs, bait,etc.. Although some I may never do some of them again, I WILL NOT be bad mouthing the rest of the hunting fraternities choices. United We Stand, Divided We Fall!!! That is a good point...my apologies in the way I stated it. That statement is made out of frustration. The problem remains the same, however. I've just had too many hunts ruined by dogs running through the woods. I think in the ideal world (if you had a property that was isolated, and no other hunters were trying to hunt) then dog hunting could be done. Since that is not the real world, how do you run dogs through the woods without ruining everyone else's hunt? I've never really had that explained to me before, but I am open to hearing it.  Whichever my choice of hunting or weapon (gun, bow, crossbow, still hunting, ground blind, treestand, etc.) it does not involve an activity that prevents my fellow hunters from also hunting. To get back to the original thought, the primary reason I bought a crossbow was so that I could take my son to the woods before the dogs made it impossible to have an opportunity. The nature of dog hunting dictates that dog hunters will have the opportunity and everyone else will not. How can you take the time to teach you younster about respecting the woods and fellow hunters, make him practice with his weapon, teach all the safety rules, have him get up hours before daylight, take precautions regarding scent, have him walk quiety to the stand, sit still without making noise for hours, etc. only to have dogs come running, barking, completely upsetting the woods and then tell him is day is over and it was all for not. I look forward to your reply. |
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Whichever my choice of hunting or weapon (gun, bow, crossbow, still hunting, ground blind, treestand, etc.) it does not involve an activity that prevents my fellow hunters from also hunting. To get back to the original thought, the primary reason I bought a crossbow was so that I could take my son to the woods before the dogs made it impossible to have an opportunity. The nature of dog hunting dictates that dog hunters will have the opportunity and everyone else will not. How can you take the time to teach you younster about respecting the woods and fellow hunters, make him practice with his weapon, teach all the safety rules, have him get up hours before daylight, take precautions regarding scent, have him walk quiety to the stand, sit still without making noise for hours, etc. only to have dogs come running, barking, completely upsetting the woods and then tell him is day is over and it was all for not. I look forward to your reply.