MUST SEE !!!! For Deer Hunters

[Greg Krause]

Feb 3, 2009 20:06:40 GMT -5 BT said:

Thats a great pic Greg.
Yes, thats definitely the back of the diaphragm but shows just how far you can go back and score a good hit.
The higher you go the better Chance that you are going to connect with the lung when shooting back that far.
I think we have all said (previously) that if you find center of the body and then center that, you'll be dead center lungs.
I generally shoot about 3-4" forward of where you hit this deer.

Your hit looks 3" back off that mark, just forward of center...yes?

i wish I actually measured but the entrance is no more than 8" behind the crease and the exit is about 6". This is still behind the diaphram and nothing but lucky. I have seen liver shots live for up to 8 hrs before. If you move up 3-4" you will just be catching the back half of the lungs. 6" front of this hit will result in the middle of both lungs

[BT]

i wish I actually measured but the entrance is no more than 8" behind the crease and the exit is about 6". This is still behind the diaphragm and nothing but lucky. I have seen liver shots live for up to 8 hrs before. If you move up 3-4" you will just be catching the back half of the lungs. 6" front of this hit will result in the middle of both lungs

I'd agree with that.
I have never seen a liver hit deer make it over 1/2 hour although I know that you have.
Shooting back as far as I do, I have hit the liver many times....watched them drop or they dropped not far out of sight if I didn't see them go down.
That said....each time, it was a Spitfire and the liver was pumping our more blood than a lung hit.

Looking at the deer you have down there, I would estimate the distance between the back of the front leg to the front of the hind leg to be about 18".
That makes my aim point 4" behind the line of the front leg which I think works well.
Like you say....(if everything goes wrong) it's easy to recover a gut shot deer.

[BT]

Here is what I have done forever, with exception given for angle, where turn away goes back toward the center line and turn to comes toward the front line.
Where does that put me on the dead deer cut away?.

[Greg Krause]

I'll agree with the dot in that pic. That is a double lung shot for sure. Just behind the crease.

You have to be careful crowding the front, because of the shoulder and I agree with that...BUT you have to be careful not to shoot too far back, as there isn't as much room as most people believe. As tedicast said before, a quartering away is the "safest" best shot for this reason. a shot a little forward will still get heart or lungs, too far back should still catch liver and at least 1 lung.

[Greg Krause]

Feb 4, 2009 8:28:12 GMT -5 BT said:

I'd agree with that.
I have never seen a liver hit deer make it over 1/2 hour although I know that you have.
Shooting back as far as I do, I have hit the liver many times....watched them drop or they dropped not far out of sight if I didn't see them go down.
That said....each time, it was a Spitfire and the liver was pumping our more blood than a lung hit.

I too have seen deer go down is seconds with liver hits, but even with solid liver hits I have seen deer live for a very long time. randy hit that one a few years back, 3 ribs in from the back. Just got liver and there was a lot of blood on the ground. He watched her bed 4 times in 30 minutes. He marked her location and backed out. we went back 6 hrs after the shot and I made a 40yd follow up shot one her, lengthwise through her. Just left of the "Vent" exiting the right armpit. taking out the guts, liver and 1 lung. she jumped up ran 70yds and finally went down 10minutes later. she would have lasted a lot longer with just the original hit.

I'm just saying the liver is not a good target to aim for, although I'll take a lucky shot over a pure gut shot anyday

[BT]

Feb 4, 2009 9:14:00 GMT -5 Greg Krause said:

I'm just saying the liver is not a good target to aim for, although I'll take a lucky shot over a pure gut shot anyday

I'll go with that

[BT]

How many times have you had a deer perfectly broadside?.
I have stands set up that do give me alot of perfect shots for broadside but when I have not been in those stands, it has been very rare.
I just finished looking at a site that is dedicated to trail cams....hundreds and hundreds of pictures.
Thats where I got this one above.
It occurred to me that it is very hard to find a perfect broadside picture and therefore, how likely is it to get that shot if you dont set up for it?.

That said....if you can set up for that broadside shot then why not attempt to set up for a quartering shot instead?.

[ghost]

Feb 3, 2009 22:31:05 GMT -5 royden said:

Another thing I notice is the "dead space" above the lungs - I have long thought there was a space there and argued with some about it.

In a dead deer the lungs are some what collapsed, I think that "space" is probably filled with expanded lung is a living deer.

Ghost

[royden]

Feb 4, 2009 20:23:29 GMT -5 ghost said:

In a dead deer the lungs are some what collapsed, I think that "space" is probably filled with expanded lung is a living deer.

Ghost

If that space can be seen when dead, why couldn't it be there when a deer exhales? I have personally helped trail a bear and a deer that friends shot in this spot - both went a long ways - the deer (arrow passed thru) ended up eating at his own haybales all winter with a whitespot on her hide to frustrate him ;D. I lost an antelope and a cow elk over the years to this shot also - both I overestimated the yardage and shot high. The antelope I trailed 13 miles and found later that day to hunt again that evening (he had lost his herd and regained another herd with 9 does during the day he was "lung shot". The cow elk I never saw again, but was working/hunting in that drainage logging and should have seen ravens if she had died. My only conclusion can be that there can be a space above the lungs "a dead zone."

[BT]

Feb 4, 2009 20:54:07 GMT -5 royden said:

Feb 4, 2009 20:23:29 GMT -5 ghost said:

In a dead deer the lungs are some what collapsed, I think that "space" is probably filled with expanded lung is a living deer.

Ghost

If that space can be seen when dead, why couldn't it be there when a deer exhales?

It can and does....when it exhales.
I remember seeing a film of an x-ray that was shot on a dog that showed just that.
The diffrence was pretty pronounced.
That said, the film was done with an audio and in that audio, the speaker pointed out that the point of minimal area existed only briefly during the cycle of breathing.
That said...absolutely possible that a lung can allow an arrow to hit and miss in the same area Dependant on the time in which the arrow passes