Pretty disturbing

[BT]

Not just the facts but also the hit counter number that is on the page

www.saveourelk.com/

Your government and tax dollars at work

[royden]

Hate to say it but it's true ... our deer herd appears to be plumeting (I don't know if it is only local, maybe a virus, or all the extra doe tags (1200 tags extra) but I see roughly 1/10 of the deer we did 3 years ago) ... I only saw one moose calf this fall in 14 days of hunting ... saw fewer than usual elk calves ... the herd dynamics changed this year (but that may have been weather related). A couple more years will tell the tale better, but by then if the trend continues our wildlife populations are really gonna be hurting. The biggest problem I see is how to control the wolves in the heavy timber/mountanous areas. Can't trap them very well, poisoning wouldn't fly like it did a 100 years ago when our grandparents (who warned us not to do this) fought the wolf with every available weapon and the wolf still survived.

[nodog]

Isn't it funny the love fest some people have with this animal. It's not cuddly or innocent. It rips and tear the innocent apart.

That's what scares me the most, the people who love this animal.

Had no idea they were that big. I hear they clear out yotes. Nother reason for me to not like them. They push the yotes out of the "remote" places into my back yard.

Don't get me started.

[nodog]

And another thing what this crap about the eco system. Was it hurting without the devil dogs? I don't think so.

There's a great story told about the last wolf killed in these parts, at least most thought it was the last one and good ridence.

[smj]

The wolves are here in Colorado as well. They are not supposed to be here, but they are. A pal of mine watched a small pack over the summer down by his cabin. They found tracks in Rocky Mountain National Park a couple weeks ago. A few years back, a wolf was killed on I-70 out on the west slope, hit by a car... It had a collar - from Yellowstone.

I should probably not get going on this one... I'll just point out this: If we still had the habitat that was here when Lewis and Clark came through then, yeah, we could probably get a natural balance of preditor/prey again. The habitat is gone, there will be no natural balance. With nothing in place to control the wolf population there will only be slaughter, just as quickly as the wolves can breed themselves up to the task.

[BT]

I dont know how they do it in other places but back home a person would just drop the hammer on anything that was causing this type of disturbance.
Overly simplistic statement but the facts of the matter as pertains to population growth.

Idea...how about taking this link and pasting it where people really dont know what the facts are?.
A public forum pertaining to wildlife devotion .... peta , NYtimes , ect..
Taking the case to the public is more reasonable as to hoping change gets effected.

[bow wench]

I've had a few conversations with these rabid wolf-lovers. They don't want to see the facts or hear the facts. You can state facts, figures and documented statistics to them all day and they come back with: "Those aren't accurate, the data you have has been manipulated by pro-hunting groups."

[mtshooter]

They are finding the wolves in far Eastern MT now. That is not typical wolf habitat.

The whole thing is really disturbing. The fact is, the wolf they transplanted are not and were not "natural" or "native" to the US. They are Canadian Grey Wolf, so in my opinion should never have been transplanted or on the endangered list. Now that they have reach the numbers well above needed to be de-listed and a season put on them, the "pro-wolf" groups are fighting the de-listing.

[Doegirl]

Why not just delist the wolf? They're population is just going to continue to climb until they exhaust their food sources (elk and deer).
I'm sure we'll see change when western states DNR's start to lose money. No game-then why buy a tag?

[royden]

I've heard the rumor about the wolf not being native. I'm not sure on that one - even though it is called the "canadian grey wolf" I don't KNOW if there is a difference between it and the "grey wolf".

At one time wolves did roam the entire west - including eastern MT. They trailed the bison herds and haunted the sheep herds.

Your right that it is not "typical" because of habitat changes and food source changes.

smj is also right in that we don't have the controls in place to limit wolf growth. From reading the lewis and clark journals those boys almost starved while crossing thru western MT - they lived on fish and roots and the occasional venison. If we had as few games animals as then (which is where we are headed with a predator like the wolf) the sportsmen will howl.

Talking with an avid hunter, horn hunter, and lion chaser yesterday produced a theory on our local deer population. 8 years ago we started seeing wolves in the county on a regular basis (two packs that I knew of). Lions were abundant but dispersed. 3 years ago the local "town" deer herd was overflowing - gobs of deer, we had 20-30 here in our fields, everywhere I worked and looked in the valley bottom was inundated with deer sign. Fewer deer each year. This year the lion hunters have been chasing more cats near town than I remember in years past.

I believe what has happened is the wildlife has been rearranged by the introduction of wolves. The wolves stayed in the higher elevations more backwoods less people areas - deer moved out. Wolves traveled around but primarily still stayed in the backwoods - dispersing some ... a few deer stayed ... the lions moved out and followed the main deer herd to town. Last week 2 lions were chased with a couple miles of the house (8 were suspected in the area cause of tracks) 2 more were chased in an area I'm building road in. The local town herd is being decemated by the lions ... as a result of the wolves.

I honestly don't mind the wolves ... they keep down coyotes, lions, skunks and other small predators. But we have to have a season on them and methods of controling the population. We also have to have more data (collars, etc.) on how many we have. 7 cows were killed last fall by wolves ... in an effort to be helpful fish and game shot two wolves feeding on one of the cows - they shot the ONLY wolf in the area with a collar on!

From what I hear in MT, the fish and game is ready to open season on the wolves (tags can be bought this year) but wyoming has been the real hold up this on getting the wolf delisted. The feds aren't happy with Wy plans for wolf control I believe.