Proficiency testing

[Doegirl]

I disagree with what the DEC said about an earlier bow season not affecting antlerless harvests. The letter made it pretty clear that they're considering an early muzzleloader season.
Problem with muzzleloaders is that I'm pretty sure New York, like Ohio, deer need to be thinned out the suburban areas. Gun hunting in Westchester County? I don't think so. ;D
The proficiency testing could be made into a money maker for bowshops and sporting goods stores. Bow not tuned? Hey, for $20.00 we'll get her papertuned and dialed in at 20yds. And there's a pretty good chance you'll pass now. Perhaps the arrows are underspined. Don't you think it's time to upgrade from that 30yr old Bear Whitetail? For only $450,we set you up with....
You get the picture. The wildlife divisions just don't want to be bothered with the logistics. The DNR's could require that you present a current hunting license and deer tag BEFORE you shoot your competency. That way they get their money, too

[CopperHead]

Mar 10, 2009 19:32:57 GMT -5 SPIKER said:

It seems that the firearm industry has more lobbying dollars than the bow manufacturers.

He was quick to imply an early muzzleloader season rather than give bowhunters more time in the field.

The proficiency thing will never happen due to the fact that they already know that it will cut state license fees by removing all the failed bowhunters from contributing to the pile of cash that they regularly receive.

NY will always be NY....corrupt, and expensive.

Granted I am not against this but hunting with a gun of some sort seems to be the answer for everyone. In North Carolina they are proposing that the season be open to gun hunters from start to finish, sort of an open season with hunters choice of method of taking game. The perception being that gun hunters are more successfully than bowhunters. <sigh>

Regardless I will go to my stand with a bow in my hand and still take just as many deer as my gun hunting brothers and sisters.

[BT]

I would be willing to bet that the percentage of Doe taken with gun is less than the bow as relates to hunter numbers.
If that is true than the gun would be a lesser tool for what the state wants than the bow.
If that is not the case, the bow isn't hurting things.

Anyway...the thing I was most interested in pursuing was the proficiency testing.

[CopperHead]

BT,
I hear ya! It really suxes to say this but I think the only way to get the proficiency thing going is if we enforce it among each other. With all the government budgets sinking in the toilets according to the media, agencies aren't willing to speed a dime on anything unless they have too. Its definitely a great idea and something that should be pursued but I dont think the DNR is going to help. Unfortunately its not about whats the right thing to do but how much will this cost.

So what other options do we have? The only thing I can think of is propose to hunt clubs to enforce proficiency testing. If as a collective we can get enough people doing it then maybe we could get movement. Police our own if you will. Granted this is a pipe dream but it can be done.

[BT]

There is another way and that is prestige.
An organization that promoted this as part of their banner could have people wanting to qualify just to say that they can.
I find that you have to make it a challenge for anyone to take anything seriously.
When you just hand something to someone, you dont get many people offering to take it.

I was intrigued by the Professional Bowhunters society when it first came around because you had to qualify to be a member.
I was totally uncaring when it became a pay for membership society.

Now if there was a REAL professional Bowhunters Society that had perks....that would be a good start.
Kinda like the IBO but for Bowhunters.

[CopperHead]

BT,
Thats a great idea. Now your talking. What would be involved in getting something like that started? And how do we keep it from becoming like the Professional Bowhunter Society? Lots of questions I know but this concept sounds great to me. But that seems to be the downfall ... money. For instance the Record of Exotics... For a fee you can get your name in the record book provided you provide a picture and a scoring sheet. I was interested in this at one time until I figured out how it worked.

I totally agree that prestige and honor motivate people. But how do you start such and organization. One for instance is the 200 club.. Holy cow I've never seen a deer that score anywhere close to 200. If I did I'd probably pass out from the rush.. ;D ;D

[BT]

I dont think it is that hard to be honest.
Time consuming yes, effort involved yes, lots of work for no pay yes.....but it could be worth it.
Peer pressure is a wonderful thing when the focus group wants to become part of the peer group

Have you watched the way we are constructing this Big3 Contest here this year?.
Thats how you do it (to start) by building a structure of oath on a consensus based on a belief.
Once you have consensus you have to nail it down and forge it in iron as a constitution.....and not a God damned living breathing one either!.

The Fred Bear Club had a constitution based on field ethics and the Hunters moral ethics.
It was a good foundation but it was bastardized by the factory after Fred's death.
P&Y has a real good Constitution but it isn't inclusive and is prejudicial to the point of alienation of it's own.

There is no society that works like the two above organizations without the negitives....so I would suggest using their goods, throwing out their bads and starting there.

[BT]

The latest reply.....

Mr. Robinson:


DEC deer biologist Jeremy Hurst forwarded your recent Email to me.
Thank you for your thoughts and concerns. With regard to shooting
proficiency, it is not a requirement for the NYS course. However, our
volunteer instructors do offer our students the opportunity to shoot to
fulfill the requirement of bow hunting on various properties open to bow
hunting, such as, NYS Office of Parks and Recreation land, federal land,
county and municipal land. New York’s Sportsman Education program
works very closely with the National Bowhunter Education Foundation
(http://www.nbef.org) and the International Hunter Education
Association (http://www.ihea.com ) in the area of standards and
requirements for bow hunters. There is quite a bit of variability from
state to state but I must say New York is considered to be a leader in
sportsman education and the state's standards are rigorous.

I’m in agreement with Jeremy’s contention that “ . .
.understanding the limitations of their equipment and the necessity of
consistent practicing order to be effective and humane hunters.” That
is the responsibility of an ethical hunter not a proficiency exam at the
end of a bow education course. I also know, that this concept -
equipment limitations and the consistent need for practice - is a major
learning objective for students taking the NY state bow hunting course.
One additional point, some land owners require a demonstration of
shooting (gun and /or bow) proficiency before individuals can hunt on
their land - if there is a concern, this may be a very good thing
depending on the particular situation.

Michael J. Matthews
Certified Wildlife Biologist
NYSDEC - 5nd Fl.
Division of Fish, Wildlife & Marine Resources
Sportsman Education Program
625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233
Our phone [phone]
[e-mail]

[BT]

It's amazing that these two guys can type with their heads so far up their butts!
Greg / Red.....you know one of these misfits on a personal level...yes?

[SPIKER]

Mar 10, 2009 20:45:41 GMT -5 BT said:

I would be willing to bet that the percentage of Doe taken with gun is less than the bow as relates to hunter numbers.
If that is true than the gun would be a lesser tool for what the state wants than the bow.

Good point!

Gun hunters as a rule, will take buck over doe in NY .

I've seen it many times where the trophy aspect outweighs the food factor countless times. Not a knock, just an observation.