Proficiency testing

[BT]

This is my pet peeve and this is the latest email too and response from my state D.E.C. official.


>>> <[e-mail]> 2/19/2009 10:14 PM >>>

Hello,
I will try and keep this short and to the point.

The state hunting season is long enough but starts far later than all
states which border us.
With hunter numbers in decline, the Bowhunter is the States best
combative force in regulating deer population.
It should be obvious that our border states are having no negative
issues pertaining to an early open season (9-15 and later) and allowing
NY state Bowhunters the same privilege would be only beneficial.
Certainly there is no reason against it.
With NY Bowhunters having already lost days off their season due to
recent changes, regaining days by starting season dates for the southern
zone (Oct.1st.) would change nothing pertaining to past changes.

Also,
I would like to ask that the D.E.C. consider implementing proficiency
testing as part of the bowhunter education courses.
Bowhunting is a very effective means of culling the deer herd but
allowing inept persons to enter the woods can only hurt our image.
Also, I would argue that it is morally corrupt to allow any person to
enter the woods with a weapon who is likely to inflict wounds on these
magnificent animals.

I am a Bowhunter with over 30 years of bowhunting experience and on
these two points, I have given great thought and can see no detrimental
effect by implementing both of these idea's as law.

Thank you for your time.

Krisken M. Robinson
130 Vassar rd.
Poughkeepsie , NY 12603




Krisken,

Thank you for sharing your comments and suggestions for bowhunting
season structure and proficiency requirements. We value your input and
regularly receive and consider a multitude of alternative season
structure suggestions from bowhunters and other groups. Please also
understand that we must account for the potential effects on deer
population management objectives and the interests of other stakeholder
groups before considering proposed changes to the deer program.

The deer hunting seasons in New York have been constructed to
accomplish the necessary deer management while being mindful of deer
biology and accommodating societal and hunter interests and tradition.
Though the Southern Zone early bowhunting season in 2008 was 28 days,
the formula will again provide 35 days of bowhunting in 2009.
Undoubtedly a longer early bowhunting season would be preferred by many
bowhunters. Yet, extending the period of exclusive either-sex hunting
opportunity for bowhunters is not currently necessary for deer
management purposes across much of the Southern Zone and may in fact
complicate future management needs. In coming years we may well find
ourselves looking to new approaches for antlerless removal in portions
of the state. Increasing the season length for exclusive either-sex
deer hunting by bowhunters would likely be of little benefit for
additional antlerless removal. A more effective and equitable approach
would be to incorporate an early muzzleloading season for antlerless
deer or a combined early bowhunting and early muzzleloading season for
antlerless deer in the specific areas where necessary.

Regarding proficiency testing for bowhunters, we have also considered
this. Currently, all hunters must complete a bowhunter education course
prior to obtaining their first bow license in NY. The bowhunter
education course includes sessions to familiarize hunters with
bowhunting equipment, shot placement, practice regimes, and hunting
ethics. Most courses also provide the hunters an opportunity to shoot
their bows with the instructors. While demonstrated proficiency is not
a requirement of the course, hunters leave the course understanding the
limitations of their equipment and the necessity of consistent practice
in order to be effective and humane hunters.

We are committed to sound management of our wildlife resources for
current and future generations of New Yorker’s, and we value the
contributions of New York’s bowhunters, like yourself, in support of
conservation and our hunting heritage.



Jeremy Hurst
Wildlife Biologist

NYSDEC, Bureau of Wildlife
625 Broadway, 5th Floor
Albany, NY 12233
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
[e-mail]



Now, in as much as the reply was very well written, it does nothing to address either concern or points made by myself to the points that I addressed.

I have a call in and a reply to this email and I cannot wait to see that response

[oldfarmsblueman]

Being a new be I saw the proficiency testing last year.The
course was good but the proficiency was a joke.At Cabela's
they had a 10 yard range and I think as long as you didn't
shoot the instructor you were good to go. :oJMO

[BT]

My general experience with the discussion of testing with people online and in person has been exasperating.
The vast majority of people are so short sighted and or ignorant that they are impossible to talk to on an intellectual level.

However, a couple of years ago on a traditional forum I had a decenter give me such an amazingly good argument against testing that I learned from the conversation.
What I learned is that there were a couple of valid points against the tests that are generally spoken of and that no test is going to be perfect.
However, I also found that testing can be done to accommodate everyone and allow everyone to be tested fairly.

Once having modified my idea's, I was still told that the idea was bad but indeed I was being fair minded and my proposal was as fair as could be fashioned.
What got me was that in the same breath, the idea was considered to have merit and worthless to that person

You cant legislate morality or ethics but you can insist that there be a choice between being unethical and being ethical.
If you are allowing someone to enter the field who is incapable of being ethical then you (as a legislating body) are saying that ethics have nothing to do with this endeavor of ours.
To say that would be to suggest that we have lost our heritage which was built on the sport & Nobility of bowhunting.

[Buckshot06]

BT here is what I was told about starting deer season earlier in Ohio.
KY starts there season before Ohio so it gives Ohioans a chance to go to KY spend $$$$$ and hunt before our season takes off.
Then Ohio season kicks in and it allows KY hunters to come to Ohio to spend $$$$$ because they can hit the deer season opener.
It wouldn't benefit Ohio to start earlier because they would lose some of the out of state money.
We asked a GW about this and all he could say was "NO COMMENT"
It is all about the $$$$$.
It has nothing to due with the deer herd.
What you get more days in the field but you don't get any more tags than the limit allows anyway.
So how does this effect the deer herd in your area.
All it does is keeps the money going to the areas were you can hunt earlier IMHO.

Same thing with the Proficiency testing.
If a hunter fails the test he can't get a license.
If he can't get a license he won't spend any money.
It is not what is best for the animals but what best for the state IMO.

That is my 2cents hope it makes since.

[royden]

;D ;D what a joke ... their response was nice .. but didn't address the issues even with all those words

[BT]

What you say is true....but it doesnt make alot of sense

[Buckshot06]

Mar 10, 2009 18:40:07 GMT -5 BT said:

....but it doesnt make alot of sense

I agree

[BT]

I have thought for some time that in order to get anything done, you have to first establish an organization and then move forward.
One person cannot make a diffrence...unless that one person has a gun to your head

There used to be a professional hunters association that started out on the right path but was quickly taken over by AMO and the like and they vanished once they were invaded.
I think thats what we really need.

[SPIKER]

It seems that the firearm industry has more lobbying dollars than the bow manufacturers.

He was quick to imply an early muzzleloader season rather than give bowhunters more time in the field.

The proficiency thing will never happen due to the fact that they already know that it will cut state license fees by removing all the failed bowhunters from contributing to the pile of cash that they regularly receive.

NY will always be NY....corrupt, and expensive.

[Buckshot06]

To get anything done the organization needs to have big numbers and have some people with power doesn't hurt IMO.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease
Sit back and nothing changes make some noise and make people take notice of you.
This is our passion so why not stand up and be heard.
Once the ball is rolling maybe some pro archers will step up and become spokesman for the cause.
You got me thinking and fired up on this subject, so were do I sign up.