draw stop....bow timing?

[tkkracing]

hello.....i will start off by saying i am new to bows so my vocabulary is limited...here are the facts. i recently purchased an Alpha Max 32 26" draw 60/70#. and was using a whisker biscuit. from the start i could draw the bow with no problem at 70#, but holding the bow back was a problem, it seems to me that there was very little distance of let-off so when i would relax me holding arm to aim, the bow would want to let down.. so i had to keep alot of back pressure to keep from letting down. i then tried moving my draw stop back to give more let off. that felt much better and i started shooting some very consistent groups. however... i noticed that every time i took out my bow i would need to adjust the sights, usually just up or down but at least 6" at 20 yards. after i would adjust i would be good for the rest of the day. but the next day same-thing all over. i noticed there was some excessive wear on the whisker biscuit and didnt really care for it anyways because it was ruining my fletchings. so i take my bow to the local pro shop to get a new rest. i end up going with the qad ultra pro hd. while i was there i asked them the same question as here!..they looked at my bow and said timing was way off and fixed it free of charge! they said it was because i moved the drawstop, and put it back were it "belonged". they also said that i was shooting to light of an arrow and turned my bow down to about 64# (pse carbon force radial x weave pro 340 grains with 100 grain point and 2' blazer vanes).i brought my bow home and tried it out.. again i noticed the letoff being very short and had to hold lots of backpressure for three shots...but i couldnt shoot very consistant...on my fourth draw i decided to draw and relax my elbow and steady for the shot...then the bow letdown on me and nearly ripped my shoulder out of socket. so now i am here with a hurt shoulder and no confidence again. my question is how do i get past this draw stop and get more letoff room? i have probably shot 5-6 hundred arrows thru this bow. any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

[BT]

Aug 15, 2009 15:41:47 GMT -5 tkkracing said:

from the start i could draw the bow with no problem at 70#, but holding the bow back was a problem, it seems to me that there was very little distance of let-off so when i would relax me holding arm to aim, the bow would want to let down.

Keep in mind that I am reading into what you are saying

Drawing the bow is rarely the issue since there are a number of ways that someone who is not capable of straight drawing a bow can none the less draw past that weight.
Many times this is accomplished by pumping the bow arm while holding the bow in a position which would have the sights on the bow pointing at the sky line.

This would be something for you to comment on....to help us answer your questions

Many high performance bows (and some that aren't) have very small valleys in the draw cycle and they are going to want to jump on you if you give them the opportunity to do so by relaxing.
Pulling hard into the valley is one way to control that but it can cause the shooter to tire easily as well as cause errant shots.
Generally speaking, the release type/style is the solution to over coming this issue

Before I get to that....
The question of draw length comes up in my mind
If you are over drawn, it makes it much harder to relax in the valley
Draw length (just like bow weight) is to often decided based on what the dealer has on the show room floor or by the customers level of macho
BE ABSOLUTELY SURE OF YOUR DRAW LENGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dont take anyones word for what you need.

Back to the release....
A wrist strap caliper or roller release which allows you to adjust for length is the best design to go with.
Adjusting the release so as to allow you to anchor your index or middle finger knuckle behind the jaw, so that your neck is holding most of the tension is a huge benefit when trying to tame that valley of death (as I refer to it)

These are just some quick points for you to consider before adding to your questions or my observations

they also said that i was shooting to light of an arrow and turned my bow down to about 64# (pse carbon force radial x weave pro) 340 grains with 100 grain point and 2' blazer vanes.

What number is on those arrows?
200?.....300?
At 26".....they would have to be 200 series to be too light.


I need more information

How did you determine draw length?
what are the arrow spine rating numbers?
What release are you using?

[Buckshot06]

Man to bad about your shoulder but like I told you if you need it, I have an X-bow you can use till you get your bow tuned up.
All so I don't want any excuses from you why your team didn't do so good in the "BIG THREE 09" hunting contest ;D ;D

[tkkracing]

ok i think for your first question... i draw fairly smooth with little movement of my bow, pointed in the direction of target with little struggle
my release is a Tru-fire hurricane extreme
my draw length was in question at pro shop and was adjusted to 25 5/8" and kinda felt short.
lastly yes my radial x weaves are the 200

[tkkracing]

if i indeed need an excuse i guess i could always look at the buckshot book of excuses....lol ;D

[Buckshot06]

Aug 15, 2009 19:12:32 GMT -5 tkkracing said:

if i indeed need an excuse i guess i could always look at the buckshot book of excuses....lol ;D

I hunt there for I miss sometimes ;D

[BT]

ok i think for your first question... i draw fairly smooth with little movement of my bow, pointed in the direction of target with little struggle

Excellent

my draw length was in question at pro shop and was adjusted to 25 5/8" and kinda felt short.

Many people complain about the draw (when adjusted correctly) as feeling to short.
The natural want of the body is to open up those arms to try and overcome the load.
It's a very natural feeling and one that is overcome relatively soon after regular shooting is begun.
To further refine the draw length adjustment, the question goes to the location of the release arms elbow at the time of full draw.
Slightly out to in line with the bow arm is best.
If the elbow is back past the bow arm, you are way over drawn.
Ideally, you should be pulling into the wall so that (on release) the release hand pulls past the point of anchor.
If you are maintaining perfect anchor (hand not ending up past the anchor point) on release, you are likely over drawn.
By contrast, if your hand regularly whips back past your ear on release...you are really short
The release hand should fall back (due to the extension of the arm which was in tension) perhaps 1 to 2 inches normally.
That would be a distance (approximately) from the corner of your mouth to the ear lobe.
You can keep this from happening but if you do...it's a mistake that many people make.
To allow the release hand to extend rearward on the shot is to practice good follow through.
This method of follow through will also require that you exert tension and relaxation simotaniously....which is why it is so hard for many folks to achieve on a consistent basis.
DONT LET THAT KEEP YOU FROM WORKING ON IT.

lastly yes my radial x weaves are the 200

IMO ..... 64# is the MAX @ 26" w/ 100gr.
Ideally....I would go to 62#
JMO

[SPIKER]

Can you get someone to take a pic of you at full draw. One pic where we can see you, and both cams in the pic. Then a close up of the bottom cam, and then the top cam. All at full draw. That will show the timing issue if there is any. Also...move that draw stop again for another three pics. I'm having trouble believing that they couldn't re time the bow, if it was even necessary, in either draw stop position.

Oh yeah...put a winner's choice string on that bow so that you don't keep fighting string stretch.

[madoktor1]

Amen on the Winners Choice string. I will never shoot without one again.

[royden]

winners choice or stone mtn dakota

sounds to me like you have the wrong module for your draw length. Sounds like to get the draw stop to your length you are out of the valley and into the power curve of the bow.

Let me say it this way... if you were to move the stop to a .5" longer would there be less holding weight? If so ... you are on the wrong side of the valley with your setup. It is possible that something has stretched, but I suspect you are at the bottom end of this mods adjustability.