Shoulder pain?

[mq32shooter]

Im 6-01 250# and Ive shot quite a bit more this year than I ever have. I shoot an older Mathews MQ32 set around 67# at 28.5" draw (this may be a tad short or long?). This year I have been practicing alot with a Stan BT release and about the last week I have been experiencing a lot of pain in my right shoulder closer to the spine ( this is my drawing shoulder). Has anyone ever went through this? What helps? Could a draw length a tad too short or long cause this?

I have noticed it really doesnt hurt while I am drawing or shooting but afterwards. I used to work in an archery shop from '91 to '98 and did draw alot of 80# bows for tuning and shooting (all compounds ). Could this be arthritis?

I am a little worried and do not want to see a dr yet, looking for input.

[stilllearning]

I have heard BT say before to me and others that it could be somthing as simple as a slight strain on the muscle. He told us to start a regiment of shooting that does not over work the shoulder and alows it to heal. I guess you can shoot to much at one time and strain some muscles. When BT finds this he will be able to work you through some questions and give you a better insight as to what it may be.

[tedicast]

I just started shooting back tension this past year. I also noticed a little ache in my right shoulder from it. I think it has a lot to do with using totally different muscles to shoor the bt release. It doesn't bother me at all now.

[BT]

I am pretty sure I know what your talking about but of course I am not there
Could it be from the follow through on the release?.
I have seen people who basically over stretch the muscles.
At times , those muscles will tear due to shooting through the point of fatigue.
I saw some of these symptoms in the early 80's when back tension shooting first started getting press.

If you are shooting back tension correctly you can easily over stretch muscles since you cannot anticipate the release.
In the act of pulling through the shot , you are suddenly (and at times.... violently) launching your arm past the normal point of movement.
Although it is not a movement that is as sever as described , when the elbow is at 3 O'clock , that is the point of natural movement.
When you pass 3 O'clock you begin to add tension to the muscles that reside between the scapula and spine.
The pain could be a controlled spasm at the point of attachment.

I would test that theory and go to a trigger release for a couple/few weeks and then go back to the back tension release and see if the pain is less or absent.
If it is less then stay off it for another couple of weeks.

Eventually that area will develop and you will be able to return full time to the BT release.

With all of that said.....

This may not be at all what is the ailment and if it is not muscular....then you are just going to have to adapt or work through it

[smj]

I've known a few folks who shoot a lot - I mean a lot - and have come to issues with compound bows. I am not exactly certain of the symptoms, but in general this is what I was told...

As the folks in question started to age a bit, 40's lets say, they began to have some sort of shoulder problem. It was not a muscle strain they claimed, not from drawing a heavy bow to many times. The claim that was made was that they had shot with a release and the abruptness of the mechanical release was the cause of the problem. They ended up having to drop draw weight a bit and shoot fingers, they are all trad shooters now. Even a bow that does not have a lot of shock, there is still a lot of stress across the upper back and shoulders when you slip the trigger on a mechanical release. Over time, supposedly, this can add up and take a toll on a person. I am past the big 50, and don't shoot the compound nearly as much as I used to. I have not had any problems either. Yet, I know a whole bunch of folks who are ancient by anyones standards and they shoot compounds - all without issue as well. Anyway, I just mention this as something I have heard, but without the details you probably need!

More thoughts on this -

from: www.texasarchery.org/eletters/20050622.htm

"At longer distances the archer arches the back instead of bending at the waist or raising the arm.

The archer needs to aim the bow higher for longer distances, even with powerful compound bows. In lower-weight recurve bows this need to tilt up to reach distance can be very pronounced. There are several ways, both good and bad, to accomplish this and arching/curving the back is a bad way that can lead to canting. More effective means of aiming for long is to keep the shoulders exactly the same but to raise JUST the bow hand/arm appropriately, carefully leaving the bow shoulder DOWN. Another solution is to pivot the entire upper torso at the waist, being careful to maintain everything above the waist in exactly the same configuration. Archers that incorrectly raise (only) the bow shoulder actually increase the distance to click, and the resulting strain can lead to canting as well as shoulder pain. Watching a good field archer or clout archer (Rick Stonebraker comes to mind here since he does both extremely well) and often what you see is that they will draw to anchor, and only then move the aperture to the target by carefully bending at the waist, keeping everything else in their form exactly the same. Rick is know for repeatedly striking the clout stick at 165 meters, as well as numerous field championships. "

From : www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00192.html

"The injury is also common among people whose jobs or hobbies include heavy demands on their shoulders, such as athletes, archers and people in the construction trades."

From the Bowsite (Look at this one if none of the above!):

www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/bowdoc/shoulder/index.htm

Good luck with it!

[smj]

OK. The Bowsites ER is run by Dr. Stephen Leffler - and he allows for emails to be sent to him. So, took your case to the expert and what follows is my email to him, and then what he has to say back...

again, the web site: www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/bowdoc/

My email to Dr. Leffler:

Dr. Leffler,

First off, let me tell you that I greatly appreciate the articles you post on the Bowsite ER! There is a real need out there for this type of info, thank you for putting the time and effort in to it. Thank you, also, for allowing questions to be sent in! This question comes from a pal of mine...
Question:
Im 6-01 250# and Ive shot quite a bit more this year than I ever have. I shoot an older Mathews MQ32 set around 67# at 28.5" draw (this may be a tad short or long?). This year I have been practicing alot with a Stan BT release and about the last week I have been experiencing a lot of pain in my right shoulder closer to the spine ( this is my drawing shoulder). Has anyone ever went through this? What helps? Could a draw length a tad too short or long cause this? I have noticed it really doesnt hurt while I am drawing or shooting but afterwards.

This is the reply that came back from Dr. Leffler:

It is tough to say without examining you. My guess from your description is that is muscular and most likely from a slightly too long draw. I would bet that it is related to draw length. I would first try shortening you draw by 1/2 inch and see if that helps then if not try longer. It is also quite possible that the style of release you use could put extra stress on your back muscles. Finally, it could be that you simply need a short break from shooting(tough I know!) as you have a mild over use injury and some muscles strain. If possible I guess I would start by taking 2 weeks off from shooting then resume gradually with no draw length change. If the pain returns take another break and shorten your draw.
Hope that helps,
Dr. Leffler

It is really cool that Dr. Leffler would take emailed questions, and then actually get back with an answer! You just have to love that!!! Hope your shoulder gets better soon - stevej

[BT]

Thats a great guy! .... why cant my doctor be like Doctor Leffler?!

Thanks smj

[mq32shooter]

smj, Thanks for checking into that. I started back to work after a 2 week vacation last week and have not been shooting- the pain has subsided to a degree. It is also cutting into my "online" time. I will quit the backtension release for a spell unless I start punching the trigger when I do shoot again. The draw length is something I am struggling with but I will keep playing. Funny, I have went from a 30" draw length in the late 80's ( was waay too long) to the present 28.5" in increments and I am still concerned Im not short enough.

[smj]

mq32shooter said:

The draw length is something I am struggling with but I will keep playing. Funny, I have went from a 30" draw length in the late 80's ( was waay too long) to the present 28.5" in increments and I am still concerned Im not short enough.

Hmmmm.... It might pay to have someone take a look at your form while holding at full draw to see if there is anything obvious, like leaning back a bit or reaching to much. Just a sanity check. The other thought is to draw a very light bow, like 20 pounds or less, and check what and where is comfortable so far as draw length and anchor point goes, see if both the light bow and your normal bow are hitting the same draw. Mark an arrow from one to the other. Anyway, just a thought! Have someone who knows check the possition of the elbow at full draw, make sure that the alignment is correct. Maybe when you use the back tension release your elbow is just to far out of alignment and creating this issue? Try both releases and have someone check to see what you are doing with your elbow during both shots... Not being a doc, that's about all I can suggest. Good luck!