Shooting the Longbow

[BT]

Alot of people do very well with the longbow but others fail to ever get it because (I believe) they don't understand the method of aiming.

It's like throwing a baseball....some people can throw strikes consistently until their arm wears out while others couldn't throw a strike to save their life.

It isn't how fast you throw the ball that matters but rather where you throw the ball and that is what I am going to try to explain here.
(hopefully with an assist from my trad. moderators)

A Baseball is a good comparison to the arrow (in as much as) with the ball you become the bow which is no more than a launching mechanism like the bow.

It is the eye and mind that determine where the ball is going to go when it leaves the hand.
The fact that you don't sight the ball is not to say that the ball is not aimed.

Indeed it is aimed but in an almost subconscious level with the eye acting as a corrective part of the launching device ...namely the arm.

The fast ball does not go straight to the catchers glove since it is to heavy and so it falls and also cuts at an angle inward as it leaves the hand which is off center of the body that aligns itself with the catchers mitt.

Here is where the eye corrects for the drop and cut by shifting the ball to leave the hand high and to one side so that it ends up at point B on line with point A.

The same thing is done with the arrow or that is to say that it should be done but for some reason people want to cast that arrow like a laser , which cannot be done.

I think this is because the arrow is visible in the line of sight and therefore the person wants to point it at what is perceived to be at the target.

I reality pointing at the target will have a negative effect unless you are anchoring directly under the eye and then the arrow will still be off line of sight and will impact high while on its flat path trajectory.

for the right handed shooter the arrow will impact left and visa/versa for the lefty.

This is because the anchor is held to the side of the eye,against the head , causing the arrow to angle through the line of sight.

Depending on the anchoring position it will generally hit low with a three under or high on a one over hand position on the string.

I always recommend the three under because it gets the arrow closest to the eye and makes the margin of error less and therefore the gap easier to compensate for.

Here are some visual examples.



Here is the example of how the arrow travels through the line of sight and why most people cannot shoot traditional.



Here is what happens when the right handed archer (shooting three under) attempts to hold spot on.



Here is where he should be aiming



Here is what the sight picture should look like

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For myself , when shooting the longbow , my sight picture looks like I am laying the bottom of the arrow on top of the target at 1:00.

This will be different for everyone as their anchors will be different.
Some will indeed be the same but many more will be different to some extent.

This is referred to as instinctive shooting and not gap shooting.
Gap shooting refers to distance....just in case anyone wants to know.

True instinctive shooting comes from knowing where to release and you are not aware of it....you just do it.

Some people can do it from day one.
Generally children are super good and as the age progresses the ability regresses
Probably due to no more than a persons willingness/desire to over think the situation handed them

After a period of time you will no longer require an actual physical check of the arrows position and the brain will take the wheel , acting as a check as you come to full draw and just before you release.

It is good to attempt to shoot without checking the arrows position once you have come to the point of where you are consistent.
To rely too heavily on this method can ruin you as the computer (called the brain) attempts to take a decimal to the 1000th place so to speak

If (after a day or a couple of hours) you find that it just isn't working , go back to your standard shooting style and try it again in a week or two....or mix it up as you shoot with the occasional volley of blind shots.

This is done by focusing on the spot to be hit to the point of tunnel vision and some people just cannot do it

If you are one of those people then don't beat yourself up by trying it...you'll just get upset and frustrated.
Instead , stay with what works

When getting to the point of letting the brain take over I highly recommend stump shooting in the off season.

targets at unknown distances and sizes will feed far better information to the brain and shorten the learning curve dramatically.

Targets such as a pine cone or leaf at ranges up to 40 - 50 yards or more will be the best source of education as range estimation is a act of learning cast and you will be able to get a much better read on your line of sight as these longer shots will magnify any errors.

Within 4-6 months you should be hitting pine cones at 40 yards with an occasional miss only.

This is no joke

If you put in the time and the time with correct practice
you could become the next Byron Ferguson.
(AT LEAST AMONG YOUR FRIENDS )

[tautog]

Since things have gotten busy around the house with repairs and such, I have ahsd a LOT less time to hunt, and here in Maine, the empahasis is on guns anyhow. That leads me to what I HAVE had time for, and that is practicing with the recurve. Due to the costs and fixed income, I managed to be the benefactor of one BT, who sold me a bow at a bargain price. It is a Pearson 45 lb recurve. Sounds light, but try to remember, I have two rebuilt shoulders, and I am almost fully retired. I MIGHT get up to 50 lbs down t6he road, but that is not a priority. Anyhow, I have been practicing with my wally world 29" 45/60 arrows with VANES. After two months of trying and failing, I now actually anchor UNDER MY EYE. I have also found a way to become consistent, even for a guy with failing eyesight and shoulders. It works under an acronym: DAPAR. Dapar will save yer ess many times if you let it. Draw...Anchor....Press...Aim....Release. Draw smoothly, using your preferred style(split or 3 under). Anchor(it's called that because your hand should stay there until just AFTER you release). PRESS your anchor hand into your face---HARD(you will find it takes less stress off of your shoulders if you use a "reverse" component in your anchor: I use my thumb to rest against a spot on my jaw which allows the bow to load my fingers---which are strong---rather than my shoulders or back----which are weak from surgeries )! The pressing will teach you muscle memory too, so your anchor spot will come more naturally over time. AIM...NOW is the moment you sight the arrow left/right and up/down. You'll find you have a spot at which you can aim dead on and the arrow goes right in...THAT is your sweet spot....mine is exactly at 20 yards(How convenient ). Now you suimply allow your fingers to relax on the draw hand, while continuing to look at where your arrow is going to go. A personal note---with all the injuries, and physical problems, along with shooting VANES off of a flipper rest on a recurve, I am shooting honest one inch groups consistently at 20 yards, and four inches at 30. Tjhis is after just two months. So, may DAPAR be upon you, and follow BT's advice!!!

[BT]

Many good points here which will be covered on the traditional side of Judgment Call 2

I also anchor under my eye with some bows and my dead on is at 15yrds with the longbow.

The Mamba has my anchor on the side of my eye where I am much more comfortable with this particular bow.

Holding that hard anchor is something I went into some time ago and also cover in J.C.1

Are you still shooting Vanes or did you re-fletch with feathers?

The feathers are going to have you robin hooding if you are shooting vanes now

[smj]

Just a quick comment...

Matching the arrow to the bow is very important. If you don't have a center-shot, the arrow rest is cut out to the centerline of the limb, then the arrow has to flex more to get around the bulk of the grip. This tends to mean that you have to hold to the right of the target as the arrow tends to shoot left. A stiffer arrow will shoot even more to the left. With the right flex on the arrow shaft, the arrow will actually flex around the bulk of the grip and produce consistent groups and shoot as expected. That said - there are many little form issues that need to be developed in order to shoot a longbow consistently. I believe that this is part of the time requirement when learning to shoot one. It takes a lot of reps to get to where you don't have to think about all of these small points, some of them well listed above! They add up to equal repeatability once you get them ironed out. Good consistent form gives you the ability to repeat a shot. Moving that shot so that it hits where you want to hit is really the next stage, in two parts. Start with side to side alignment, I think it the more easy of the two. Get the right/left figured out. Don't look at the arrow, focus on the target, you will note the position of the arrow and your bow in your peripheral vision. It will map in to your subconscious. Last, work on the up and down. To figure this out, learn the arc that your bow tosses the arrow you have selected. Again, don’t look at the arrow, allow your subconscious to help you here. Watch the arc that your arrow cuts through the air with your peripheral vision – again – keep your focus on the target. What you will then adjust, up and down wise, is the arc (or path) that you believe your arrow will scribe through the air. You will find that you can actually visualize your shots in your mind and actually practice when not even at the range. I think that the use of a very small dot, or button, helps to create a target small enough to allow you to really focus on a single spot. A large area tends to result in larger groups, until you learn to mentally place the spot, or button, on the target. This all takes some time to get the hang of! Focus, focus, focus! If you want to go out and shoot casually, you may well find that your shooting is not improving very fast – or not at all! In order to fix your form issues, and learn the bow and arrow combination you are shooting, you really need to work on your focus. Distractions tend to equal poor shots. And remember – don’t look at the arrow or the bow, look at what you intend to shoot.

OK. So maybe this was not such a quick comment!

(Take note of what Marurice Thompson, back in 1878, had to say about archery... My quote at the bottom of my postings....)

[BT]

smj said:

Just a quick comment...

Matching the arrow to the bow is very important. If you don't have a center-shot, the arrow rest is cut out to the centerline of the limb, then the arrow has to flex more to get around the bulk of the grip. This tends to mean that you have to hold to the right of the target as the arrow tends to shoot left. A stiffer arrow will shoot even more to the left. With the right flex on the arrow shaft, the arrow will actually flex around the bulk of the grip and produce consistent groups and shoot as expected.

True as this may be, to some extent in order to correct (in some cases)to the degree needed , the spine may end up so light as to throw an arrow off when equipped with a broadhead that tends to plane.

In general I like carbon shafts that are spined 5# minimum above the weight of the bow.
Example is a 35/55 for a 50# bow @ 29" w/ 100gr head
40/60 for a 55# bow @ 29" w/100gr. head
I have found this to be the best combination for deflection.

Aluminum is something totally different and I suggest staying away from it if possible for the reason you mention....finding the correct spine.

Don't look at the arrow, focus on the target, you will note the position of the arrow and your bow in your peripheral vision.

Correct and better stated

I like to fast track people so the method of noting arrow placement as it relates to the target will allow the brain to work better and faster since it now has a reference point of consistence.

As you say....noting the arrows tip in relation to the target rather than focusing on the arrows tip while making the target secondary is the correct method.

If you shoot the arrows position first rather than winging it , you will always have the same position on vertical/horizontal lines and so your brain will be fed only good information.

As it is rightly said , you should not shoot a bow while tired because it trains in bad habits , so to does shooting blindly.

Last, work on the up and down.

I would say that this is way down the road and that you should not shoot beyond the flat cast of your bow until you have mastered it.

For most beginners this would be 15yrds.

OK. So maybe this was not such a quick comment!

LMAO!

[tautog]

Many good bits of info in this thread. I am wondring just what will be the result of going to feathers. When I get properly spined arrows with feathers, I just might be doing some Robin Hooding...but I had another point. I am mostly shooting blank bale, and just picking a spot, just like shooting a deer. When I go to aspot shot, I find I am pretty darn close, like within an inch.