Slow bows and shot placement...

[Doegirl]

I was just half asleep in bed this am when I got to thinking about my experiences over the years bowhunting.
With my first compound, a 45# Parker Challenger, I pretty much either missed cleanly or killed cleanly. Mostly miss Speed was about 215-220fps. Same thing with the Hoyt MT Sport (225 fps tops).
I bump up the speed last year to 255-260fps. I made alot more hits, just not where I wanted them This has got me to thinking. When deer react to the shot noise, they crouch down and back.
My theory: back in the "olden" days, deer could easily duck out of the way of my arrow. When I sped things up with the Equalizer last year, deer just can't quite get totally out of the way. With them moving down and back, I would catch them in the scapula, even though my point of aim was well below and slightly back of the shoulder.
Plausible? Thoughts?

[BT]

Absolutely.
I have had this happen with the recurve more than once.

This is why I felt it was critical to point out the distances that provided safety in regard to avoiding this situation when filming the JUDGMENT CALL DVD

At 220 fps you should have limited your shots to 14 yards if you wanted to hold dead center and not miss the lung due to the deers reaction.

This is also why I advocate shooting back

[BT]

I realize that the alert aiming point is way back...behind the lungs but it is on or near the liver, so still fatal even if the deer does not react to the shot.
The only difference being the wait time till recovery.
This is also a 300fps bow shot out to 20 yards.

A bow such as you are describing....I would aim under the deer and in line with the yellow marker.

I much prefer to aim under on an alert deer due to the fact that they dont always jump the string.
If they do, they are dead and if they dont, they are safe and without a scratch.
Just as you said about the slower bows being a hit or miss deal...I prefer that deal.

[voodoofire1]

Thanks Doegirl and BT, just when I was contemplating setting up one of my compounds to fall back on.......I see this thread, makes me happy I shoot a quiet stick, silence is golden....

[Konrad]

I read (someplace) that if you shoot even with a recurve, from less than 15 yards the deer won’t have a chance to do much crouching in preparation for the jump. There simply is not enough time to react to the sound.
The same article said that when the range is beyond thirty yards, the sound associated with the shot is drastically minimized by the affect of surrounding shrubbery masking the bow’s sound.
Then, the primary sound they will react to is the flight of the arrow. This may illicit the turning of the head or the all too familiar crouch.

I use the Blazer 2 inch vanes and wife says they sound like “little rockets” when they pass by and she can barely hear the initial shot from 30 yards (which only serves to back up my reading research).

My experience says “hold low” regardless.

Whether there is the crouch or not, you get the sweet spot.

All this begs the question: Why are we so ingrained to hit the 10 ring on those practice targets when the idea is supposed to get one used to shooting at a familiar shape in the right place?

[smj]

Lets get our facts right -

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/sound/souspe.html

At 30 degrees C (86F), the speed of sound in air is ~1147 fps... So, subtract the speed of your arrow from that number to get the difference. This result is how much faster the noise from your bow and fletching is preceding your arrow... I don't think you can base what animals hear on what us humans hear... With the doors and windows shut in winter, my dog can hear the squirrel run along the top of the fence at the back of the backyard - while laying in the hallway, middle house... None of us humans can!

If you are going to try to shoot an alert animal, I agree that you should shoot low. The question is how low? An animal jumping over a log or bush will drop lower than one on flat ground just taking off, which makes sense if you think about it.

I think we try to hit the 10 ring so that we can pick a spot on the animal and then hit that spot with equal success...

[oldfarmsblueman]

Last fall I was walking back to my truck at my son's place.I
was walking North out of the woods into a 1 and 1/2 acre
food plot (not much left).As I entered the field I notices a
yearling doe across the field to my left.She had the sun in
her eyes and I sat down 50 feet into the field.She was
feeding and walking.She moved toward me then parallel across from me
about 35-40 yards.I just sat and she finally noticed me and
did the head bob thing but kept eating and walking as she
eat.I was 100% on her visually when a Hickory nut fell out
of a tree behind me and landed on a stone wall.The yearling
dropped half way to the ground and back up with out moving
her feet in a hart beat.If I had blinked my eyes I don't think I
would have seen it.Not sure on speed of sound vs. arrow
speed but deer are wired very tight all the time and extra tight if they
are on edge.Watching that deer drop at the sound of the nut
was somthing that I will always remember.