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Post by BT on Dec 31, 2008 9:57:44 GMT -5
Wax on...Wax off....  Stop waxing off and get in here Mr. long shot! ;D |
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Post by Buckshot06 on Dec 31, 2008 10:15:31 GMT -5
I ask you this "e; is it easier to cut your steak by slicing through it or by spinning your knife across it? end quote ; Here lies your answer IMHO, which takes more energy. So the faster your arrow spins the more stable it is in flight but your BH has a harder time trying to cut through the hide and tissue for bigger KE losses at impact. This is were I feel you will see most of your KE loss not in flight but at impact of the target. You won't see this KE loss with a Field tip but with a BH it will be very evident. I think that visually I can use your example to illustrate what you are saying by rephrasing it. Is it easier to push a steak knife straight into a rhinehart target or to push the steak knife in as you are turning it?. Thats a visual with depth and one that anyone can try on a similar target  Well you understand were I am coming from anyway. Anyone can do this  . |
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Post by BT on Dec 31, 2008 10:20:32 GMT -5
I think that visually I can use your example to illustrate what you are saying by rephrasing it. Is it easier to push a steak knife straight into a rhinehart target or to push the steak knife in as you are turning it?. Thats a visual with depth and one that anyone can try on a similar target Well you understand were I am coming from anyway. Anyone can this . Absolutely!....I think thats a great example for non-bone impacts. I didn't give much thought to soft impact but as you say, cutting into a steak while turning your knife into the cut wouldn't work worth a damn ;D It would work!....just that it would work poorly. Great example! |
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Post by Buckshot06 on Dec 31, 2008 14:37:23 GMT -5
Well I thought I would post this here. I went out and was checking on some penetration depth of my arrows. The shot is into a spot on one of my targets that I have not used for practice. The shot was from 20 yards with three arrows. I tried to line them up to show the penetration difference without getting them to close. The arrows used are PSE X-weave 300 with a 100 grain Field point and blazer vanes. The bow was the Hoyt Alaphamax 32 set at 71 lbs and 29" draw. The top arrow is 29 1/4" long three vane. The middle arrow is 28 1/2" long with three vanes. The bottom arrow is 28 1/2" long with four vanes. I have to say I was surprised at the difference in penetration between these arrows. I shot this group of arrows six times and the result stayed the same. The four vane 28 1/2" out penetrated the 29 1/4" arrow by 1 7/8"  and the three vane 28 1/2" by 1 5/8". I thought I would throw this into this discussion.      |
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SPIKER
Site Guru
THE REAPER'S WRENCH
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Post by SPIKER on Dec 31, 2008 16:18:55 GMT -5
Wax on...Wax off.... Stop waxing off and get in here Mr. long shot! ;D You guys are mad scientists...  I like Buckshot06 pics to show real world results...but...Buckshot, were those field points?  If so, I think that COC BH would be better suited to the test.. Ok..I see that they were FPs. Hmm..too much snow here to get out there...I'd like to see a Magnus Stinger, or similar head. |
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Post by Buckshot06 on Dec 31, 2008 16:26:34 GMT -5
I do have some muzzy phantoms I could try . Be back soon |
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Post by Buckshot06 on Dec 31, 2008 17:04:00 GMT -5
Here you go guys the only difference is in the vanes three verses four. COC head used was Muzzy Phantoms on PSE X-weave 300 on 28 1/2" arrows. The four vane arrow on top out penetrated the three vane by 3/4 +. Pretty amazing thing that the only difference is number of vanes.     |
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madoktor1
Board Regular
Fear The Reapers!!!
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Post by madoktor1 on Dec 31, 2008 17:26:58 GMT -5
OK, how about the difference between a COC and a chisel point? 3 and 4 fletch? BT, this has turned out to be a great post. I would not have thought about number of fletches affecting penetration that much. 3/4" would be enough for some extra punch through the shoulder if a shot is off a little for whatever reason. It turns out there are many things that affect impact, torque and penetration. Buckshot, I really like the real world experiment. Like the old saying goes, "A picture is worth a thousand words."
Also, BT, how would this all be affected by a 3 blade 4 fletch set up? I shoot the Thunderheads with 3 fletch and a 1 degree offset. Just wondering if my flat flight distance would increase with a 4 fletch, either straight or offset. Dang, a lot to think about and figure out before my jig and vanes get here. LOL!!!
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Post by BT on Dec 31, 2008 18:41:36 GMT -5
Well well....did you expect anything different? Not to toot my own horn ( but here it comes ;D ) but when I say that I have investigated every angle of bow/arrow performance...I am not kidding. 20+ years of speed tuning reveals lots of interesting things I have been trying to tell people this for years...some listen and most don't. Thanks for the visual....pretty cool. ** by the way.... just poking fun with the condescending speak |
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Post by BT on Dec 31, 2008 18:56:19 GMT -5
OK, how about the difference between a COC and a chisel point?, 3 and 4 fletch? The chisel wont out penetrate the COC in soft tissue....not with straight flight.  I am going to go out on a limb and say that the same is true (most likely) with the 3 vane offset. If you want to give the point spread to the offset and allow it the COC while the 4 fletch carried the chisel.....I'd say that you would have relative penetration ... maybe a bit more with the three vane.... maybe. No effect, none at all. Set the three blade head up with the odd blade at 12 O'Clock and shoot the 4 vanes at 2 & 4 O'Clock. The two blades of the broadhead that face down will match the vanes and the odd blade will be controlled by two opposing vanes. Works like a charm! |
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and the three vane 28 1/2" by 1 5/8". I thought I would throw this into this discussion.
