1st Bear Hunt

[CopperHead]

This May I will be embarking on my first bear hunt near Big River, SK. The outfitter says shoot what I feel comfortable with but he prefers we use a fixed blade broadhead. So with that I have ecided to use the QAD Exodus head. Anyone have any issues with this head. The rest of my setup is :

Bowtech Experience 26.5@72#
27" Goldtip Hunter XT 5575

Any recommendations or tips on what I should be doing to prepare. The outfitter indicates most shots will be within 20 yards. I'm not looking for a beast but I would like a 19 inch or better skull. I plan on documenting the trip as much as I can and will post it hear once I get back.

Thanks for any advice or pointers.

[Greg Krause]

Awesome. I am also doing my first bear hunt this June in Quebec. It's an all traditional archery hunt though.

I have no experience with that head. I would just be careful, it might be considered barbed because the blades don't come back to the ferrel. I'm not sure what the regs are my favorite fixed head is still the NAP Nightmare. It's been discontinued but you can still pick them up on some auction sites cheap. I really like the NAP Hellrazor too. Good luck!

[smj]

I don't know anything about the QAD Exodus. Sorry. That said, if you can place it where you want it every time at 20 yards - I can't see where you'd have a problem with it. I have heard that with bear, like hogs, the kill is a further forward and you don't want to miss it! Make sure that they fly perfect - and shoot them up close, like 5 yards, and on out to 20. Find out if you shoot high or low at 5 yards, and so on out to dead on at 20.

Is there a correlation between paw size and skill size? If so, I'd ask the guide what the average paw size has been in the area... Make sure you understand what is required to move you to a new area if the area you are in does not have current sign, with real bears to go with it.

[smj]

Apr 22, 2013 20:43:10 GMT -5 Greg Krause said:

I'm not sure what the regs are my favorite fixed head is still the NAP Nightmare.

I bought 5 or 6 packs of Nightmares. That is a wonderful tip! Out to 20 yards, the Slicktrick shot just as well for me from my rig. Both 100 gr. The Nap is 3 blade, Slick is 4 blade. One cuts the fletch of the other when I shoot them back to back.

Individual results may vary...

[BT]

If you want an educated opinion ... Here it goes.

Assuming that you are talking about the head on the right...

I do not like this design as it has been used in the past with poor results on hard impacts. The unsupported blade over the ferrule lends itself to fracture/Bending of the main blade. What happens will depend on the steel composition and Rockwell rating of that metal.

There was a model made many years ago that ran .080 blades and what happened when using this head in hard impact testing was that the blade would not give and therefore caused the insert to break the shaft.

Look at it this way... this thing is a cee-saw that has an elephant on the front (via the locking forward portion in the ferrule and the free floating rear) waiting for another elephant to jump on the unmanned portion of that cee-saw. You are going to break or bend the cee-saw once the impact happens.
If something less than another elephant jumps on the end then you will be fine... probably... but do you want to go with an if on a bear?.

Bears shoulders are greater in mass than the biggest Buck in the world. Bear vitals are way up front... unlike a deers. Do you really want to throw a flawed design at something like that.... something which you are paying for?.



The broadhead to the left actually has much better stability on impact than the head on the right... However... It is not perfect either... just better.
I do not advocate barbed heads and especially on Bear.

With all of that said... I would continue to look. I wouldn't use this head myself.
For another reason (I wouldn't use it) is the fact that Bear do not bleed well. The hair and the fat eats blood up fast!. On the off chance I make less than a perfect shot, the guide is the first one going in. I don't think I would feel right sending a guide into the brush with a spotty blood trail and a marginal shot.

I would recommend a stout expandable (proven) or a 4 blade fixed (proven) before I would ever recommend a new guy on the block with a (proven) flawed design.

I know those heads above look really cool but this is some serious stuff (bear hunting) and I would not go into it with anything less than the best head I could find for the job.

Everything rides on this shot and you are paying a lot of money for this shot.

_______________________________

O.K.... I have said my piece on that ;D

Moving on

Being from Maine (a place with more Bear than deer) I have had plenty of experience with bear through the adventures of others and guides that I have known. Here is what the best guides recommend that you did not mention.

Send the outfitter a dirty shirt once a week, every week for a month before the hunt. (I am not joking) Socks are good to.
Just wear a cheap dollar store T under your regular shirt and sweat it up. seal it in a zip lock and send it to him.

WHY?...

Bear have great noises and winds shift. If the guide throws your rags at the bait site every week the bear will get used to that smell and will think nothing of it after a month. Now if the wind switches... no problem

Next....

Do you smoke?. If so... send a pack of your brand with the shirts/socks and ask the guide to light one up and puff on it while he dumps the bait. The lowest percentage kill hunters smoke.

WHY?....

Smokers fidget when they don't smoke and bears are not that blind.
Smokers also smoke...even when they are bear hunting. Bears who are used to the smell don't react to it and the smoker is now clam and still... so the bear doesn't see movement.
Bear are super stealthy when they aren't even trying to be. You most likely wont see the bear before it will see you. Trust me... it happens all the time.

Next.....

Bring all weather gear with you. Bear don't care about the rain but you will. Be prepared so you can be comfortable and still in the stand.

Dont bring a thermocell... Bear can smell those. bring a head net for bugs if it is going to be buggy. Practice with it on before your hunt.

Dont use cover scents. If you do the shirt trick, you are your best cover scent. If you dont do the shirt trick then just hope for the wind to stay with you until night comes. Bear will react to anything that is out of the norm.

Dont rush your shot. Most wounds come from someone trying to take the first shot.
The bear is coming in to eat....you will have plenty of time to get the shot. Wait is the best advise of all.

Great information is on bearing down #1 & #2. Two of the best bear hunting video's I have seen for the beginner. I believe they are still being sold and they will be worth the price. Ralph is a great teacher on the subject of bears.

That's off the top of my head.







By the way... bring back pictures!

[BT]

Do you have any info. on this outfitter copperhead?. I would like to take a look at his site if he has one.

[Greg Krause]

I have been doing a lot of research on bear hunting and at least half the people say the the thermacell does not bother them at all. A few guys even posted video of large bears eating at baits where they had just placed a running thermacell for the first time. I talked with my outfitter and will be using one. All of his clients do and have great success. Talk with your outfitter and see what he recommends.

As for shot placement. Most good outfitters and experienced bowhunters are saying take the bear nose to rump and find the middle. Now take the belly to back and find the middle. Where those lines intersect is the "middle of the middle". They say that most bears go down within 100yds when hit there. Most loses seem to be too far forward. I have no experience but am going on the recommendations of guys with 100's of bears killed with them.

[BT]

I suppose it's like anything else... there are exceptions. Some will care and some will not. I would rather just play it safe and use a net if I could. If I were shooting a recurve (where I cant wear a mask) I guess I would risk it.

The guides I spoke to (last time I was up in Maine) said that the thermocells were spooking the bears and since I can smell a cell (up close) it sounded right to me. Could be that the guides I was talking to were just looking to explain why some folks were not seeing bears and this was a common connection that they saw with the clients that were striking out.

Might be the fact that the cell was right on the bait that the ones in the videos were not bothered. Bears don't seem to mind stuff at the bait such as the guides scent but when scents are off the bait, it does get their attention.

Maybe you will both get lucky and it will be cool enough to keep the black flies at bay

Apr 24, 2013 0:11:51 GMT -5 Greg Krause said:

I have been doing a lot of research on bear hunting and at least half the people say the the thermacell does not bother them at all. A few guys even posted video of large bears eating at baits where they had just placed a running thermacell for the first time. I talked with my outfitter and will be using one. All of his clients do and have great success. Talk with your outfitter and see what he recommends.

As for shot placement. Most good outfitters and experienced bowhunters are saying take the bear nose to rump and find the middle. Now take the belly to back and find the middle. Where those lines intersect is the "middle of the middle". They say that most bears go down within 100yds when hit there. Most loses seem to be too far forward. I have no experience but am going on the recommendations of guys with 100's of bears killed with them.

One thing I will say about the vitals is that they are up front just like a hogs. Seen more than a few bears opened up at the gun shop. I think the problem is that (because of the thick coat) people think there is more there and that is why they miss the chest cavity.
New guys and even guys who have done a few hunts seem to misjudge bear size regularly and this is just the same thing in relation to the shot.

What generally seems to happen is that the hunter will wait till the bear quarters too much and then tries to pocket the arrow.
Better to just wait for a quartering shot and aim for the front of the offside leg.... pretty much like a deer... just a few inches further up.

My cousin (the Maine guide) complained about the fact that guys from away could not shoot bear ;D
He was saying the same thing as Greg is saying.

[BT]

I just pulled a picture of a bear standing perfectly sideways and you are right Greg.... When going nose to butt with the head up and the bear looking forward that looks right.

But that's not a way I want to have to look for the spot while hunting. A bear on a bait is rarely standing side to in perfect form. Good way to memorize where the spot is before the hunt though.

Just remembered what my cousin said and this may explain what I was trying to describe about hunters "seeing" the wrong thing and it also explains why people shoot too far up front while trying to pocket the shot. This is the best way I have heard it described...

When you shoot at a deer you are shooting at an animal with hair 1/2" thick. what you see is what you hit.
On a bear that has up to 5" thick of hair you have to envision that area behind it. It is like shooting at a fish where the water plays with your perception.
If you aim at the hair, your arrow will go that much further forward before hitting anything.

If the bear is side to then it is aim point on but if the bear is quartering then you have to keep the shot back further than you actually see it at the hair.
Ralph Cianciarulo pointed out this same thing in one of his earlier tapes if I am not mistaken although he didn't explain it like that.

[CopperHead]

Apr 23, 2013 22:51:38 GMT -5 BT said:

Do you have any info. on this outfitter copperhead?. I would like to take a look at his site if he has one.

BT, Greg and SMJ thanks so much for all the information above. The outfitter is Saskcan Outfitters. The URL is www.saskcanoutfitters.com/. The site does not have any pictures it seems since 2010. I am going hunting with a buddy that was looking for a group to go. I have crossed many borders just not as a civilian ;D so I am looking forward to it. I figured I ain't getting any younger so its time to start on my bucket list. I just want to see and take a mature animal not looking for a monster but I will take one if he comes along.

I wished I had posted this earlier. I like your idea about the shirts and smell. Unfortunately I leave in less than two weeks. Maybe I can do that next time.

In regards to the exodus it is the head on the right. I wont shoot the barbed head for the reasons you stated. However after looking at the picture I noticed its slightly different than the head itself. I'll see if I can get a picture posted.

I'm excited to go I'm just worried I'll bug out and shoot a dink. From most of the research I have been able to do this area seems to hold a few bruisers and that would be a shame.

I am planning on documenting it as much as possible an this will be the first place I post it. Wish me luck.

Greg good luck to you too sir.