Hi, my name is Jennifer....

[Doegirl]

Let me ask you a few questions.....

On the range estimation errors....what was the average distance and when you missed , were you shooting over or under for the most part?.
Most of my missed opportunities come at longer shots (23-25yds) and close in (less than 15). Long shots typically miss low and the close shots fly over their backs.

How many of those missed shots were due to poor form in your estimation?
(I cant put alot of weight into this thought but it is worth consideration)
Perhaps 25% of the time. Especially when it's cold out and I have a zillion layers of clothes on. My biggest form error is moving my anchor up my face as opposed to bending @the waist when shooting at a downward angle. This is why I now use a kisser button.

What is you Bows physical weight? 5lbs, loaded.

What are your anchor points? ..... do you use a kisser?.....what size peep?.
3/16" fletcher peep, small sized kisser to back corner of mouth, tip of nose touching string. string hand against jaw bone with thumb up against bottom of jaw bone. The bow I have now will NOT permit any sort of creep-valley's too short
(Just looking to build a picture here....something that I can envision)
[/quote]

[BT]

O.K. .... two more questions.....I think I am getting a good Picture here


#1: what is the flat flight of your bow?
(I.E.: from 0 yards to ? will your arrow travel before seeing a measurable drop....lets say a 1" drop)

#2: Would you consider using a no - peep?

Here is why I ask....

You're bow is capable of a minimum of 20 yards of flat flight trajectory.
If you are within 22 yards of your target (holding center lung at a 30 degree angle) you should not miss due to elevation change.
** That distance could be adjusted to 24 yards minimum with a sight pin setting that has you hitting 2" high at 10 yards.

A no - Peep would most definitely assure that you could not torque or mis-anchor
The No - Peep is the cure for this issue......100% guarantee

Would you mind re-stating your arrow specs & draw length please?

[Doegirl]

admin said:

O.K. .... two more questions.....I think I am getting a good Picture here


#1: what is the flat flight of your bow?
(I.E.: from 0 yards to ? will your arrow travel before seeing a measurable drop....lets say a 1" drop)
Well, according to the Bowjackson ballistic program. I get 4" of drop @10yds. That doesn't seem right

#2: Would you consider using a no - peep?
I tried one about 3 seasons ago. My right eye would occasionally take over the sight picture and throw my shot about 2' over to the right. Remember I'm left eye dominate and shoot lefty. I'd be willing to try it again however. I shot with one closed until very recently.

Here is why I ask....

You're bow is capable of a minimum of 20 yards of flat flight trajectory.
If you are within 22 yards of your target (holding center lung at a 30 degree angle) you should not miss due to elevation change.
** That distance could be adjusted to 24 yards minimum with a sight pin setting that has you hitting 2" high at 10 yards.
According to Bowjackson's ballistic calculator, I get 4" of drop @10yds. That doesn't seem right.

A no - Peep would most definitely assure that you could not torque or mis-anchor
The No - Peep is the cure for this issue......100% guarantee

Would you mind re-stating your arrow specs & draw length please?

Axis Obsession 500's cut to 25" w/ 100grain tips and 4" feathers fletched helical. Total weight 360grains. Draw length 25"

[CopperHead]

Hey Jennifer,
I definitely suffer from buck fever all the time. But most of all I had exactly the same problems you are having. My problem was with onset of buck fever and trying to estimate range I was almost always off. Which was guess the animal was farther away than what it really was. So what I did first was to figure out the distance to things around my stand. Once a deer came close to that object I had a good idea of the range it was at. After I started doing that I connected more often. When I was finally able to afford one I bought a laser range finder. If I have time I always shot the animal with the range finder first just to be sure. This all of course assumes your not shooting instinctively. I just figured I would post as it sounds alot like me when I first got hooked on bowhunting. :-)

[BT]

trilby69 said:

admin said:

O.K. .... two more questions.....I think I am getting a good Picture here


#1: what is the flat flight of your bow?
(I.E.: from 0 yards to ? will your arrow travel before seeing a measurable drop....lets say a 1" drop)
Well, according to the Bowjackson ballistic program. I get 4" of drop @10yds. That doesn't seem right

#2: Would you consider using a no - peep?
I tried one about 3 seasons ago. My right eye would occasionally take over the sight picture and throw my shot about 2' over to the right. Remember I'm left eye dominate and shoot lefty. I'd be willing to try it again however. I shot with one closed until very recently.

Here is why I ask....

You're bow is capable of a minimum of 20 yards of flat flight trajectory.
If you are within 22 yards of your target (holding center lung at a 30 degree angle) you should not miss due to elevation change.
** That distance could be adjusted to 24 yards minimum with a sight pin setting that has you hitting 2" high at 10 yards.
According to Bowjackson's ballistic calculator, I get 4" of drop @10yds. That doesn't seem right.

A no - Peep would most definitely assure that you could not torque or mis-anchor
The No - Peep is the cure for this issue......100% guarantee

Would you mind re-stating your arrow specs & draw length please?

Axis Obsession 500's cut to 25" w/ 100grain tips and 4" feathers fletched helical. Total weight 360grains. Draw length 25"

Respectfully.....I would discount and ignore any ballistic chart you come by.
Let me rant here a moment
Ballistic charts are at best a destructive tool used by persons who have little knowledge of energy dynamic driven flight.
They are used to give answers to questions that they (charters) themselves do not know due to a total lack of understanding as to what an arrow is capable of and/or should be doing after release.
Really ..... ask anyone who I have set a bow up for what their specs are and then use the charts
What I am doing is impossible according to the charts
If you're bow isn't hitting within 1" out to 20 yards....rest assured....it can do it.....and can do it easily
O.K. .... rant over

You're arrows (IMO) are too heavy but not enough to suck the last bit of performance out of it.

Back to the No - Peep.....
I would encourage it's use due to the fact that (as you know) if you are not lined up perfect , neither is the No - Peep and therefore , you know when you are off.
But....even when you were off , you were not off dramatically and it was on a horizontal plane.
If you are off the shoulder (as you should be) then 2" is fine since a whitetail has more than a 4" off center kill zone when viewed on center.

I'd find that flat flight first off.
If you dont know when the arrow starts to fall then you are at a disadvantage as to picking the correct pin at any given distance outside of that flight window

[Doegirl]

Respectfully.....I would discount and ignore any ballistic chart you come by.
Let me rant here a moment
Ballistic charts are at best a destructive tool used by persons who have little knowledge of energy dynamic driven flight.
They are used to give answers to questions that they (charters) themselves do not know due to a total lack of understanding as to what an arrow is capable of and/or should be doing after release.
Really ..... ask anyone who I have set a bow up for what their specs are and then use the charts
What I am doing is impossible according to the charts
If you're bow isn't hitting within 1" out to 20 yards....rest assured....it can do it.....and can do it easily
O.K. .... rant over

You're arrows (IMO) are too heavy but not enough to suck the last bit of performance out of it.

Back to the No - Peep.....
I would encourage it's use due to the fact that (as you know) if you are not lined up perfect , neither is the No - Peep and therefore , you know when you are off.
But....even when you were off , you were not off dramatically and it was on a horizontal plane.
If you are off the shoulder (as you should be) then 2" is fine since a whitetail has more than a 4" off center kill zone when viewed on center.

I'd find that flat flight first off.
If you dont know when the arrow starts to fall then you are at a disadvantage as to picking the correct pin at any given distance outside of that flight window [/quote]


Unfortunately, I was off by 2 feet, not inches, with the no peep. At least now I recognize when I cross over that vertical plane with the bow. I discovered that by drawing my bow in front of mirror. That's why I'd be willing to retry the nopeep. It wasn't the nopeep, it was the nopeep user.
How does one go about finding the flat flight? I would assume get some lighter arrows first, then figure it out. With 300grain goldtips, I'm about 1.5" high @ about 13-15 yds with my 20yd pin.

[mtshooter]

Hang on Jennifer and I'll find BT's explanation of finding flat flight

This isn't the one I was looking for but it is a start

Flat flight is the distance in which you can hold you're first pin on a 2" mark and hit that mark.
How far can you shoot back from that mark and still hit it.

In other words.....the shot window .... where does it develop?

If you dint know.....this will give you something to do Cheesy

[Doegirl]

mtshooter said:

Hang on Jennifer and I'll find BT's explanation of finding flat flight

This isn't the one I was looking for but it is a start

Flat flight is the distance in which you can hold you're first pin on a 2" mark and hit that mark.
How far can you shoot back from that mark and still hit it.

In other words.....the shot window .... where does it develop?

If you dint know.....this will give you something to do Cheesy

OOH . O.K. that's about 22yds with my 20yd pin. At 25yds The drop is almost 4". I have a 25 yd pin.

[Doegirl]

Just dug out my old shooting notes-3.75" drop 20-25yds.

[mtshooter]

I'll leave the flat flight to BT

Tell me a little more about your bow. If I remember one of your threads you are shooting an Equalizer right?