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Post by Doegirl on Oct 28, 2008 18:09:45 GMT -5
 Here is what the norm has become and why IMO losses are so high in relation to what they would be/could be. This is where I was aiming at those deer in NY.  I'm pretty sure I smacked that ridge part of the scap on that spike buck. The pic of the bone structure and where I hit match perfectly.  . Now I'm suprised I got any penetration at all. |
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Post by BT on Oct 28, 2008 20:14:34 GMT -5
Yup!....now tell me....isnt this what the masses have ingrained into your mind as the perfect shot?. Not trying to put words in your mouth but if you said yes....I'd believe it The reason I have Greg Krause shooting the field tests is simple...he is one of the very few people that can blow through both scapula's on center..... even if he was using a blunt! ;D Seriously though....Greg is the only person which I have met that is capable of scapula testing in the field ....without concern as to losses. The shot that you describe is perfect for him  |
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Post by Doegirl on Oct 28, 2008 20:24:58 GMT -5
Yup!....now tell me....isnt this what the masses have ingrained into your mind as the perfect shot?. Not trying to put words in your mouth but if you said yes....I'd believe it The reason I have Greg Krause shooting the field tests is simple...he is one of the very few people that can blow through both scapula's on center..... even if he was using a blunt! ;D Seriously though....Greg is the only person which I have met that is capable of scapula testing in the field ....without concern as to losses. The shot that you describe is perfect for him You're right, I did think that was the "perfect" shot. It's just a wake up call as to how much energy it really takes to bust through a scap and get enough penetration for a killing shot. Mr. Krause shoots over 40lbs more KE than I do. Hell, he overpowers my old crossbow (77ft/lbs). ;D Very, very few people can bust that heavy bone. |
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Post by BT on Oct 28, 2008 20:47:21 GMT -5
Agreed...very few.
This was something that brought me some concern when I began testing with scapula's.
By showing evidence of an arrow penetrating that type of bone....I felt that I might be encouraging the concept of finding heads that would accomplish this feat.
I hope that it has always been obvious that this was not the intent.
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Post by snoodslapper on Oct 28, 2008 21:11:40 GMT -5
 Here is the opening where neither bone nor flesh nor gut exsist. As you can see.....there is not an easy opening that is not bordered by the potential for losses However...there are area's that will allow you to miss and still recover and area's that will not allow for that option  Bone is the enemy (unless your Greg  ) whereas gut can allow easy recovery....provide that you sit tight and don't move in to quickly Flesh....it's a flesh wound!.....dont worry about it!....the deer wont  PLEASE!!!! Shoot for the middle/back of this open kill area  I shot a doe a couple of hours ago just at sunset. I had a Gold Tip Gladiator nocked for some turkey I was preparing to take a shot at when this doe came in. I've never used a mechanical on a deer before; only on turkey and coyote. Naturally I could not switch to my fixed blade just then  . However, due to the tests here, I had confidence in this head. I had a difficult shot through a small opening between some branches at 35 yards. I shot and I hit her right at the corner of the yellow line and the horizontal line in your photo. I was a little worried. However, she turned and I immediately saw a stream of blood from the exit. I started counting. I HAVE NEVER seen a deer die so quickly. She took a couple steps and died in 20 seconds. It got dark quick, and by the time I got back to the truck, it was a headlight field dress. ;D Lots of blood in the cavity. It was apparent that I hit both lungs as well as the vein/artery (?) that runs under the spine. Just a little plug there for how this board can give you confidence in what you shoot. Because of it, I usually have 3 or 4 different heads in my quiver. By the way, you can't even tell the head was shot except for the blood on it. I can't believe a plastic ferule could be strong. |
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Post by Doegirl on Oct 28, 2008 21:14:49 GMT -5
Agreed...very few. This was something that brought me some concern when I began testing with scapula's. By showing evidence of an arrow penetrating that type of bone....I felt that I might be encouraging the concept of finding heads that would accomplish this feat. I hope that it has always been obvious that this was not the intent. I had no delusions of grandeur that I could actually penetrate the shoulder bone. I think most of the readership here does not, either. It's good to know what heads can withstand heavy bone in case of a screw up'd shot. It still does not mean one actually has the power to drive through the bone and into the vitals. |
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Post by BT on Oct 28, 2008 21:20:05 GMT -5
NICE!!!  Good for you dude!  You are one of a growing base that has tried an expandable for the first time and have had the same witness reports of amazingly short expiration times  I would suggest that the gladiator is a modified version of the punchcutter....which everyone said was crap 20+ years ago Obviously.....when used as intended....the expandable is a great tool for the trade |
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Post by BT on Oct 28, 2008 21:31:39 GMT -5
I had no delusions of grandeur that I could actually penetrate the shoulder bone....... No, thats not what someone such as yourself would think. But....this is the kinda mindset that some people do operate with If you can do it, thats a great tool for the arsenal and I would suggest going for it whole heartedly. That said....not at the expense of any one thing  I love to use Greg for this type of discussion Greg is an example of someone who enlists the brute force generated by high bow weights and speed....without suffrage Example of what I am saying was proven out at the Rhinehart 100 this past year when Greg took the iron man (1st place) with his hunting bow  Many people who shoot a rig such as Greg's would have been out of the running within a few shots....thats a fact. Greg can hold 80# for 5 minutes without a flinch or shake....thats adding to your arsenal in a positive way (I actually witnessed Greg on a full draw, straight down shot where he held like a statue for over 5 minutes ) The bottom line of my concern was not people who have and use common sense but rather those who don't |
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Post by snoodslapper on Oct 28, 2008 21:33:48 GMT -5
Ha! Thanks BT.
That makes two does so far in the last 3 weeks, BOTH with defunct Gold Tip heads. The first with a Gold Tip Centurion at 40 yards and this with the Gladiator. Both blew through the deer and were in excellent shape after the shot. Too bad GT quit making heads.
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Post by BT on Oct 28, 2008 21:37:45 GMT -5
You need to get a camera man!....you have always taken a great hero shot I could see you on a package for some product |
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. Now I'm suprised I got any penetration at all.
) whereas gut can allow easy recovery....provide that you sit tight and don't move in to quickly 
. However, due to the tests here, I had confidence in this head. I had a difficult shot through a small opening between some branches at 35 yards. I shot and I hit her right at the corner of the yellow line and the horizontal line in your photo. I was a little worried. 
