Preserve hunts - thoughts

[BT]

royden said:

So when an anti-hunter asks you to defend the humanity of penning a normally wild critter and the "sport" or even "need" of hunting" 'em; how do you defend?

Good question
I have faced that question from anti's and hunters alike and I always say the same thing.

I was raised on a farm and I know what my father always said which was.....we dont eat what we sell
The hormones that are used to grow meat animals super big , super fast are no good for anyone but the farmer who sells them
that's just a fact.
We had a few beef critters each year as well as chickens and pigs and those animals were maybe 30% - 50% smaller than the same animals sold
Why?.....my father feed them differently and didn't shoot them full of growth hormones

Store meat kills and sickens people.
Why in the world do you think the cancer rate is so high and heart problems are rising yearly?.
Even though smoking is one tenth of what it was just 40 years ago , cancer and heart diseases is off the charts.
Now what do you think is the common denominator there
Hmmmmm....

The hogs that I hunt are either wild strain or catch hogs which have none of the above injections for growth.
Also.....why should I pay twice as much for my meat....better meat

Sport is what you make it.
This isn't a lean 'em up against the wall and fire scenario ;D
The reason I hunt hard preserves is because I like to hunt rather than kill.
The hunt is the most important aspect

The first two reason is generally enough to give the questioner pause as to thier own practices of being dependant on the hand of the butcher for thier sustenance ;D

[BT]

tdickens58 said:

That's not to say that there aren't some good preserves out there that will offer a challenging hunt, I'm just not sure I could feel proud of the accomplishment on hunting on a preserve.

I agree with you 100%
Gaining Pride is rarely what you are setting out to do in a Preserve.
What you are generally out to do is to have a good time , share some great eats with your friends back home and test your equipment & shot placement.

Let me assure you of one thing....when a 200# hog charges at you or away , you will suddenly feel that rush and you will be hunting.
It's instinctual and a very real human response.
You wont have time to think about how your feeling until the day is over and you are feeling something other than a rush from the day's hunt.
For nearly every person I have taken out...this is the reaction and all of them (myself included) felt the way you do right now

[royden]

spiker said:

I feel that all hunters have a right to choose how they hunt, as long as they do not discriminate against one another..

I don't speak for anyone but myself, and am not affiliated with any special interest groups..

;D I was waiting for you Spiker!

Figured how you would reply - could just about have wrote it for ya (except for the disclaimer - that came out of left field)

Here's the rub that I see. YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE HOW YOU HUNT. Someone else years ago decided to LET you have the right to hunt how you choose. But in recent years those rights have slowly been eroded away. The people who do not like hunting are the ones who are more vocal and if we are not carefull will choose what and where we can hunt.

I have noticed this trend in the less popular forms of hunting and other recreational sports. Bear hunting for example - how many states have outlawed bear hunting? Lion hunting - how many states have outlawed lion hunting? Wolves - I hope we get to hunt them - they are back in a serious way and I'm not sure how they are gonna be controlled in the thick heavy timber of the mountains. Another example is wilderness. I like wilderness, and do a lot of hunting and hiking in it. However; someone else has declared an area just east of me (about 5 air miles) to be a proposed wilderness. It is quite rugged and has some spectacular roads thru it. Roads that only a 1000 yrs and some landslides will ever totally get rid of. It is amazing how things like that last. From a half mile away, I spotted a trail going across a hillslope 2 years ago. Told my wife that was a human made trail and not a wildlife trail (wrong location and direction for wildlife). Couple months later we were reading about the local Kootenai Indian tribe and the trails they made - Even had pictures and one of them was of that exact same location back in the 30's. Anyhow Eastern politics has decided this is a great wilderness to be and want to close the roads to traffic and make it foot or horse access only. Who is gonna hike 27 miles of 20' wide road just to access this area? The alternative is to hike about 5 miles and up 4000' from one access road right at the canadian border. that will get you to the ridge where you can then access lakes and the roads surrounding them from the northern edge. Point being that the area is already roaded slightly but enough to allow decent access. The locals don't have enough power to sway the powers that be so others will decide what we can do. I really would like to elk hunt in there but...

Bt - great post. Those are all the advantages I see in preserves - especially the opportunites for kids and disadvantaged hunters.

[SPIKER]

I'm sorry, but we can do something about it! There are less antis that are active then you think, it's just that the ones who are...are very active.

NY SHOULD BE AN EXAMPLE FOR EVERYONE!
You should have seen Chuck Schumer do an about face when he realized the amount of money that Sporting licences bring in to the state....how much hunters, and fisherman..."PAY" for their right...and thats just it in a nutshell....money...the more of us there are....the better we can fight them...and not by appeasing!!
And the more our polititions get used to having that money in their pockets, the harder it will be for them to part with their purse strings.

[royden]

admin said:

The first two reason is generally enough to give the questioner pause as to thier own practices of being dependant on the hand of the butcher for thier sustenance ;D

I've thought the same about store beef - don't buy it very much!

So... now the anti is on your side and says "Ok. Game farms sound humane and better than beef farms - I can dig that. Lets get rid of hunting and limit it to game preserves. After all wounded animals can't be lost and animals like to be well taken care of with beds and lots of food."

Now what?

Don't laugh too much about my character! I had a Japanese exchange student live with my parents when I was in high school. She and her country men (according to her) really felt that way about zoos. They would trap wild animals and put them in a local zoo even though they had a large zoo population. Logic was that the animals preferred to be "taken care of".

[royden]

Spiker -

YOUR RIGHT! of course I just want to make sure people realize we ahve to make our voice heard where it counts.

The anti's are just like us for the most part. Normal people with an agenda and a set of values. Most of 'em don't know any better and most don't care enough to do anything about it. We can educate a lot of 'em on a one to one basis like BT was talking about.

see ya tomorrow - too late for big thoughts!

[SPIKER]

I'll leave off with this:



The new report isn't out yet...but 20.6 billion got a lot bigger I bet!!

And here's NY's alone (still 2001 as well):

[rreda]

I do not have a problem with preserves at all. However, in my mind there is a very big distinction between "hunting" and "shooting". As long as it is a "hunt" in the preserve, rather than a "shoot" I would be all for it.

This brings up another topic I feel strongly about. Personally, I would much rather take a medium sized buck that I found, scouted, and hunted, than kill a P&Y buck that I "shot" out of a tree that I was put in by an outfitter that had done the scouting etc. For me the "hunt" includes all that goes into taking an animal, the shooting of it is just one component of the hunt. IMO, I just would not get the same satisfaction out of taking an animal, if all I did was "shoot" it.

That is why I have turned down many people who have asked me to come to their property because I could "shoot a deer off of their back deck". I have to tell them that I consider myself a "deer Hunter", not a "deer shooter". Just no fun in that for me.

[jamaltwy]

my thoughts:

some states like Texas don't have much public land so just about every where you go you are hunting someone lease ....high fence low fence it doesn't matter it is some kind of preserve so i don't have a problem with preserves now that being said specially in NY there are some preserves that give a bad name " shooting pens" i call them... this puts black eyes on shooting sports game has to have a fair chance too me!!! Like I've stated in other post I've been to one ranch 200 acres of the toughest , thick, mess you can hunt saw game running around goats ,sheep and hogs then they disappear .. this was hunting not killing for some people they can't or won't travel far , me i like to see new places some it is easier to get game back home with no added expense to each his own!! as long as the animals have a fair -great chance of escape or hiding.. i support the cause but if you have a pen where they herd the animal in to shoot, I'm not down with that!!

[vixenmaster]

I know this thread is old but i have been coming to this site & reading abit here & there. My nickol about Preserves. They're great one's good one's & fish in a barrel shoots. Fences don't bother me, they have to have some method of keeping their game on their land. Anti's are the same bunch of ppl who always let the Patriot do the fighting & dying fer them knowed what i mean Vern ! I will never have the funds to go hunt wild sheep, moose, elk & cariboo. I am also disabled so i can't throw an 80 lb pack on my back & hit the wilderness. I can save up funds from my fixed income fer a yr or 2 & go get a Ram or Hog not that i want anything but a meat squealer. A Buffalo is lots of meat but i couldn't put a Head that size in a 12x18' cabin, lol. Would love to go after a Sika or Axis. So there is a nitche fer those places. I wouldn't pay you 3 grand fer the world record Buck, why cause i can hunt them where i live & enjoy getting my meat deer.