smj
Forum Guide
Traditional Council
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Post by smj on Apr 18, 2008 16:01:33 GMT -5
By the way, if something makes no sense at all the way it is written - please point it out! I try to proof this stuff before posting, but things still get past me some times. So, please point out the obvious goofs if you find them so I can go back and correct things! If you think I am all wet, feel free to express that as well... Just remember, we are nice to each other on this site... Right?  Thanks. |
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Post by BT on Apr 18, 2008 18:13:41 GMT -5
... Just remember, we are nice to each other on this site... Right? ;D ;D |
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smj
Forum Guide
Traditional Council
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Post by smj on Apr 18, 2008 18:55:43 GMT -5
If you notice, above we added a “spot” for specific focus to our target – but were really trying to align our arrows to the line down the center of the target. Kind of ignored the spot. As we move forward in our aiming, we really need to focus on the spot. Focus on that very small point where we want our arrow to strike. Think about it, this is the line of reference, this is the target to which we align our form, to which we reference our arrows flight path. You often hear traditional shooters refer to “picking a spot.” If this didn’t make sense to you before, I hope it does now. This is the “spot,” and the line from us to it, is fundamental to everything we are trying to achieve when we take a shot! A line serves well for right/left adjustments, but for the up/down adjustment we need to be careful indeed about how we line ourselves up if we are to hit the mark! This is why form issues and right/left adjustments really have to be made first, only then can we can make adjustments for elevation and hope to be successful. So what’s the catch on all of this? The catch, so to speak, is that learning distance shooting to hit the mark still takes time and effort sans sight pins! Up to this point, all can be accomplished with relative ease. Learning to adjust for target elevation changes and distances takes time. I recommend starting at 10 yards, or even 5 yards. Just to get a feel for it all and establish a baseline. You will fundamentally repeat what was done above, except this time for elevation. Howard Hill, again, used the tip of the arrow for this. By having the eye near the arrow, he would establish a point where the tip has to be, relative to the mark, in order to hit mark with the arrow. If you anchor under your chin, the offset of where the tip has to be placed verses where the arrow will hit is so large that it is in itself a huge guessing game for aiming. However, with your eye close to the arrow, the point where the arrow will hit verses where the arrow tip lies are fairly close to each other. For Howard, the tip had to be on the shoulder of a deer at 20 yards to hit the animal in the middle of the chest. This is also very consistent providing your form is good and draw length equal during each shot. This is where target traditional shooters tend to favor the 3 fingers under grasp on the string as it allows the arrow a bit more close to the eye. Shoot a couple arrows and take note of the tips position. Strive for groupings rather than accuracy. Once you have a group, then modify the tip position by a very slight bend at the waist to correct the shot placement. Always, always, always, focus on the spot! Never ever look at the arrow directly. You are allowing your subconscious mind to be trained. Looking at the arrow directly screws this up big time! This is true split-vision shooting, with the focus on one tiny spot in particular!
Kidwell takes another route to the idea of split-vision shooting. He maintains that the arrow will scribe a parabolic arc through the atmosphere on its way to the target and that the mind is capable of memorizing this parameter. Once we know what path the arrow will take, it is a simple matter to adjust the launch angle of the arrow to hit the mark. He promotes visualizing the arrow in flight hitting the mark. He also then suggests that you can practice any time you’d like by simply visualizing the shot in your mind – once you know what your equipment will provide. If you see a squirrel in the park, mentally place a red dot on him and take a mental shot! This appeals to me as while talking to tree-huggers in a park in Boulder you can be taking out everything within bow range. They never know… This is also split-vision shooting, and picking a spot absolutely critical to success! This just proves that archery is a mind game as much as a physical game. Think about that one…
Personally, I like to combine the two methods. Overall, I use split-vision. Specifically, I use the tip of the arrow to adjust for right/left. For distance, I use the path of the arrow and launch angle. Yet – lets be honest here, the tip of the arrow is visible when I take my shot… How do I know the brain is not processing this information along with the path information??? Along with what ever other information is available from form data to other peripheral data? My best guess is that it uses all of the above! To specifically break down the shot process and focus on learning key information we can greatly reduce the learning time required to shoot a traditional bow. Let’s be honest, all of this data is what is being processed by the brain when it comes to shooting instinctively!
I hope this explains a few things, and makes reasonable sense to old shooters and new shooters alike. You often hear about having good form, and picking a spot, but seldom do I see the two really put together in an attempt to show how they interact. Traditional shooting still takes time, but a logical approach to success will - with any luck at all – help a bit! I think that a deeper understanding of form and flight can be lost with new compound shooters, due to the cookie-cutter approach that compound shooting allows. (I am not saying this is bad, just saying this is how it is! Nothing negative there at all!) I hope you can see, now, how shooting traditional might help your use of a compound, and how going from a compound to a traditional bow can – because of these gaps in understanding of the fundamentals – be way challenging!
stevej
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smj
Forum Guide
Traditional Council
Posts: 1,819
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Post by smj on Apr 18, 2008 19:03:53 GMT -5
There are certainly a number of books out there that cover this subject in great detail. Amazon.com sells these books, which are very good indeed! The last two on this list are on my personal wish list - I don't think you'd go wrong with any of them!
Become the Arrow (On Target Series)
by Byron Ferguson (Author), Glenn Helgeland (Author)
Instinctive Archery Insights: Revised Edition
by Jay Kidwell (Author)
Instinctive Shooting II [ILLUSTRATED]
by G. Fred Asbell
Instinctive Shooting: A Step-By-Step Guide to Better Bowhunting
by G. Fred Asbell
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smj
Forum Guide
Traditional Council
Posts: 1,819
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Post by smj on Apr 18, 2008 19:05:07 GMT -5
At this point, let's open this puppy up for questions and comments...
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Post by easternhunter on Apr 18, 2008 19:22:34 GMT -5
At this point, let's open this puppy up for questions and comments... uh yeah, could you repeat all that?   |
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smj
Forum Guide
Traditional Council
Posts: 1,819
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Post by smj on Apr 18, 2008 19:30:01 GMT -5
At this point, let's open this puppy up for questions and comments... uh yeah, could you repeat all that? Sure... read as many times as required! Specific question? ? |
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Post by BT on Apr 19, 2008 7:22:24 GMT -5
The Howard hill style works very well for myself but causes myself issues as distance increases  I also do visualize arch and that is an easy thing to do....just like throwing a baseball. The best I have ever shot was when I delivered the arrow to the mark by anticipation of it's direction at any given distance. Very close to your own method smj but as distance increases it definitely has to become totally instinctual for myself or I can hit anything  Wow!..maybe it's just to early in the morning....I don't think I can describe just what the heck I am wanting to say |
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royden
Senior Board Member
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Post by royden on Apr 19, 2008 9:34:17 GMT -5
 Very good read SMJ .... I like to sugest to beginners (even compound shooters) to find their foot position first by getting ready to shoot, comfortable leg spread, etc. ... then close eyes at full draw, have them rotate at the hips and then go back to where they think the target is and open eyes ... if off left to right readjust feet and try again. Pics of some pertinant points would be nice ... still trying to figure out how to hold an arrow with one hand via thumb and pinky with the tip at my nose ... Do you have access to the Martin girl or some of the other cuties for other form related shooting pics? I'm sure you would have fun with the duties required to get good pics. 
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smj
Forum Guide
Traditional Council
Posts: 1,819
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Post by smj on Apr 19, 2008 16:42:57 GMT -5
The Howard hill style works very well for myself but causes myself issues as distance increases I also do visualize arch and that is an easy thing to do....just like throwing a baseball. The best I have ever shot was when I delivered the arrow to the mark by anticipation of it's direction at any given distance. Very close to your own method smj but as distance increases it definitely has to become totally instinctual for myself or I can hit anything Wow!..maybe it's just to early in the morning....I don't think I can describe just what the heck I am wanting to say Actually, I understand what you are saying. Howard Hill said that same thing - a stronger bow allowed longer shots due to falter trajectory, but after a point it became very hard to hit accurately with high reliability. The problem being that the arrow is dropping so much that it is hard to gage the required offset to make the shot. I think it was Hill who actually gave guidelines for distances to be expected based on the draw weight of the bow you shoot. (Which obviously results in changes in cast.) If I can find these "rules" again, I'll post them. BT - I think that you need to reconsider what you think "instinctive" means... Few would argue that a baseball pitcher or football quarterback toss the ball instinctively. Yet, ask them to close their eyes and accomplish the same thing! Like, tell John Elway he has to replay that last Super Bowl game with his eyes shut! I think you'd find the outcome very different!!! Now before you scream foul - think for a minute... First, Elway needed good form that would repeat. Then he needed to know how hard to toss the ball to get any given distance. Then he has to compute the intercept point given who was running and what the defense was doing. It is actually a lot harder to throw that football than it is to shoot an arrow! There are no sight pins on the football. Purely instinctual. And traditional archery is the same thing. What goes in to making a good pass also goes in to making a good shot with a traditional bow. Neither one can close their eyes! Hence, the brain is at work and processing the available data. From all of the available data it will come back and say "Do this..." If you have your data right, and the brain has had the time to develop the algorithms it needs to make the computation right - the pass, or the shot, will be successful. Period. What I am suggesting here is that we can speed up the process of learning if we focus on a few key points, we can help the brain learn what needs to be done to make successful shots. When you suggest that longer distance shots are "instinctual" but that closer shots are not - I say that you are thinking to much and getting in the way of your brain! Once you have the brain and body programmed, get out of the way! Focus on the spot! Yet, when you find that you have lost the recipe for making a good shot then it is time to review the form and find out what has changed, where you have gone astray! Go back to close distances and work through form issues again, right/left issues, and then distance issues. This is also why developing a systematic approach to taking a shot is a good idea early on in an archers existence! Because with regard to traditional archery, the idea that if you "don't use it, you loose it" really does apply! Do you think Elway had to practice to get good? Sure! Do all traditional archers need to practice to get good? Sure! Does more practice make for better quarterbacks and archers? Sure! Do you think Elway could walk out on the field and repeat some of the those great passes today, without any practice? Absolutely not. No way! It's gone. Can an archer expect to pull out the traditional bow once a year come hunting season and be ready to go right away, without year round practice? Nope. Yet, I would suggest that by focusing on very specific data you can shorten the learning time considerably. Again, traditional archery is as much a mind game as it is a physical game! People focus on the physical part, and ignore the mental part - calling it by this magical term, "instinctual." |
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