smj
Forum Guide
Traditional Council
Posts: 1,819
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Post by smj on Feb 22, 2009 15:14:35 GMT -5
My cedar shafts at 11/32nds - 65/70, weight in at ~533 grains. How much are those running you SMJ? Now that I think about it, these are cedar... Here is the source on them - www.3riversarchery.com/Arrows+Shafting+Wood_c58_s158_p213_thumb.htmlYou might want to check out the Laminated Birch option... PS - The arrow shown was actually built by Kevin, my hunting buddy. He is a master at creating the wooden shaft. I need to have him give a class on the subject, and post it here. |
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Post by voodoofire1 on Feb 22, 2009 15:32:53 GMT -5
"I have been looking for an 80# for a couple of years but nobody wants to build that "
An 80# what exactly?.. and at what draw length?
I had the same response when looking too.....sissies,lol,lol
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Post by BT on Feb 22, 2009 15:41:20 GMT -5
"I have been looking for an 80# for a couple of years but nobody wants to build that " An 80# what exactly?.. and at what draw length? I had the same response when looking too.....sissies,lol,lol 80@28" is all I was looking for. Right now I have a 70 so 80 would give me the 10# I am looking for. I owe it to your comment that I needed to suck it up and shoot more  I'm doin it no problem now  |
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Post by voodoofire1 on Feb 22, 2009 17:56:37 GMT -5
Well BT, Just be careful, muscle builds quickly, the bones that support them take a little longer to catch up, and I figure that's why some archers have problems with their shoulders and such, their frame just isn't strong enough to support the added stress of shooting a heavier bow, just take it slow, don't rush it and you should be fine..........also, with your short draw you might try a bow with a little more intial load, that should up your penetration and speed a bit.
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Post by BT on Feb 22, 2009 18:37:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I talked to the builder at Bob Lee and he said that their bows only lost 2-2.5# for every inch below stated specification.
The issue may be (for me) that if I go from 25 to 27", I wouldn't want a bow that started to stack at 25.
So I would think that if the limbs were full loaded at 27" I would be fine for whatever I was shooting at that time.
Yes?
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smj
Forum Guide
Traditional Council
Posts: 1,819
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Post by smj on Feb 22, 2009 20:25:29 GMT -5
Yeah, I talked to the builder at Bob Lee and he said that their bows only lost 2-2.5# for every inch below stated specification. The issue may be (for me) that if I go from 25 to 27", I wouldn't want a bow that started to stack at 25. So I would think that if the limbs were full loaded at 27" I would be fine for whatever I was shooting at that time. Yes?
Yeah - if I understand you - you want to pick the longest draw length you intend to shoot and make certain the bow is capable at that length. Then shoot shorter if you want. Maybe play with arrow weight to try to get similar flight between draw lengths. Keep the heavy ones for the longer draw, a bit lighter for the short draw. It is not perfect, but short of having two different bows, it is where you end up. Still, given that the form is different from the longer draw to the shorter draw, you might not notice accuracy problems once you dial both forms in. You will have to make sure the spine is right at both lengths to shoot the same arrow at 2 different draw lengths. If I short draw my stiff spined arrows, I notice that short draw in the way the arrow flys... But the arrow I am shooting is marginal, being to stiff, even at my fullest draw length (5575, 200 grain tip, full length shaft). So to reduce by two inches is significant! I have a softer spined arrow that shoots great at a shorter draw length, and works OK at the longer draw as well. However, the shaft is right at the cross-over point for this bow - about 52lbs at 28 inches. (My normal draw is 31") The light arrows are 3555, and with only 125 grain tips, carbon, nearly center-shot on the bow. These arrows are, I think, an inch shorter than the 5575 shafts, just the way they come. Hence, I only pull these arrows about 30" max. A good release and follow through - they do OK... Just way lacking in mass! Fun to shoot though...
It seems like a lot of the traditional bows out there are designed to accommodate a 28" draw length. Which is why I get in trouble with most of the bows out there! (Even compounds, I have to choose my bow with my draw length in mind. Those of you with long draws know what I mean!) For you, at 27" for the long draw, I would figure 28" being the marked draw weight, then take back somewhere between 2 and 3 pounds to put you at a 27" draw. At 25" take off another 4 to 6 pounds. If the bow stacks at 29" - probably you will be closer to the 3 pounds off, in general. As the string angle approaches 90 degrees between the string and limb, the draw starts to loose the advantage of long draw travel to short limb travel. At 90 degrees - the point of true stack, for every inch you pull the string, the limbs must also move one inch. Hence, you pull the limb farther so you see more gain in draw weight per inch drawn. I should plot that out some time, I've not done so yet. But I think that if you did, you'd find that the first inch of draw, the limbs hardly move. This ratio will gain a bit over the next couple inches and then hold fairly steady through the mid-draw length of the bow. Hence the seemingly linear climb in a plot of the force curve. About the same limb movement for the same draw movement. Then at some point toward the end of the draw cycle, as the angle between the string and limb approach 90 degrees, you will start to see an increase in limb movement for the equal amount of draw. Hence, pre-stack, if you will. When you hit stack, you will be pulling the limb a full inch for 1 inch of draw. I've not thought much about what happens after you pass 90 degrees... Maybe the limbs move more? It is all about the angles - and finger pinch, but that's another story!
Don't believe me about the angles??? Think about a recurve... They are shorter limbed. How do they get away with it? For one, the recurve adds more pre-draw tension. This gives higher energy, which can give a faster arrow. Then look at the string to limb angle... Those short little curved limbs bend a lot farther than longbow limbs before the string angle is an issue! Also, shorter limbs can mean less mass to move, hence a faster response once the arrow is released. Can mean, this is not always true - it depends on how well thought out the design of the limb is...
Anyway, this is starting to get to be a whole lot more than you'd asked about! |
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Post by BT on Feb 22, 2009 20:44:52 GMT -5
I had to increase the font size to read but it was really worth reading SMJ  |
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Post by Buckshot06 on Feb 22, 2009 20:51:01 GMT -5
I had to increase the font size to read but it was really worth reading SMJ I thought something went wrong with my computer ;D ;D |
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Post by BT on Feb 22, 2009 20:58:56 GMT -5
If I could set this board to show a #3 font all the time...I would!
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Post by voodoofire1 on Feb 22, 2009 22:15:21 GMT -5
"the recurve adds more pre-draw tension. This gives higher energy, which can give a faster arrow"......Ummmm, that doesn't sound quite right to me, let me explain........ yes there is added tension, as you have to bend the limbs farther to connect the string than you do on a longbow, that creates tension, but not neccessarily the additional power needed for faster arrow speeds because of the thin limbs, what does create the power are the recurve tips.. they are levers on a lever and when you draw the string back they apply additional force to the working part of the limbs themselves, which is in fact shorter than the working limb on a longbow, as LB's generally use most of their length as the working part, which is also why people view the longbow as smoother drawing, and more stable.... now if you want to add in hybrids, they have the most preload or initial power, they just don't have the lever tip of the recurve, but some have an additional wedge in the last 6"-8" of the limb which turns it into a smaller lever as the wedge prevents that part of the limb to do any work but to lever, this also creates added tip weight which is a trade off for speed, now designs can play a big part in this, OL Adcock, figured out a way to beat this with his design which both lighten and strengthen the end of the limbs at the same time, which if I'm not mistaken, makes his bows the fastest trad bows on the planet, recurve, longbow or hybrid, least that's the way I read it in a leading trad mag test......... it is all about angles.
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